Warning Bell - Were Our Tears Real?

varalotti · Nov 5, 2006

This Thread is Getting Richer by the hour!

Dear Varloo,
At the outsel I should honestly confess that this thread is getting richer by the hour by soul-stirring and soul-searching contributions from people like you. I started preparing an elaborate reply to your post.
But now I have another idea. By talking about how your career goals were frustrated at every step you have made me think a lot and look deeper in to myself and into the subject at hand.
In the process you have also reminded me of an incident which made me cry when I heard it the first time and which makes me cry every time I think of it.
I am going to post that incident as a new thread (inspired of course by your wonderful post) next Saturday. I don't think we will be able to complete discussing the topic before that as every one is coming with detailed self-analysis.
Thanks Varloo for your nice post. Now keep your fingers crossed till 11th November.
regards,
sridhar

varalotti · Nov 5, 2006

I Appreciate the Candour, Usha!

Dear Usha,

I am really floored by your honesty and outspokenness. When you learnt the first lessons in Accountancy they have drilled the convention of conservatism (one of the noblest conventions for us Accountants) into your mind that your post now reflects that quality. Any good company would hire you as its accountant considering your love for safety.

Seeing your strong views on the subject I am a little hesitant to counter them. But let me do it just to complete the arguments.

Of course there is no point in taking a career-risk when you are half way through your life. But I did not mean that by changing career we would lose our basic sustenance. In the example I have quoted Rajiv did not lose his basic necessities. But he had sacrifice many of his luxuries. Of course what is a basic need and what is a luxury is a very relative term.

Now let us keep the argument to the spouse. Suppose your husband were to tell you one fine morning that he had resigned his job and his investments would fetch you about 50% of his current income and that would be enough for all your basic needs - food, clothing, shelter and provision for children's education and marriage. And your husband wants to pursue his dream career. What will you do? Give me an honest answer as you did before.

In another example I quoted it was a senior executive earning in lakhs who is now working for only 3 days in a month for a tenth of his salary. He is pursuing his dream career in theatre.

I appreciate your firm views on the subject. I am sure your husband would never quit his job. These are just scenarios.

But, Usha, we owe a primary duty to God, to put our talents to their best possible use. That is possible only in a dream career. And people who do not do that get stressed up later in life. It is these people who fall into a mid-life crisis or have retirement blues. We should at least attempt something in that direction to have a peaceful life.

I am fully with you; I don't want a rash jump from a stable job to an uncertain job; it will be a jump from frying pan to fire. At the same time I want you to consider that at one stage in life all that matters is to do what one loves to do.

If I had hurt you with my words, pardon me.
regards,
sridhar

varalotti · Nov 5, 2006

Again a sane analysis!

Dear Preethi,

True to my profession (accounting and law) I shall give my response in specific points.

01 What you have stated is the major problem with all the parents. The parents do not want their children to get hurt. But they don't mind if their children do not love their work. For them a child's safety is more important than its happiness. Parents think that food and clothing is more important than doing what one loves to do. Yes, basic necessities are important; but as we advance in age, doing something we love to do is at least as important as food and water.

02 Another question you have raised is the change of career by Rajiv. It would have been better if he had decided to become a teacher in the very beginning. Many times our minds fool us into thinking that we are in the right path. Rajiv had been sincerely thinking that being the marketing executive for HLL was what he liked. Only when he went deep into his job did he realise that it was not his calling. He had the guts to quit and change his course. I tell you Preethi many many people have this feeling. One or two years into the job they realise that they are not cut out for that job. But then instead of deciding like Rajiv they go on working, burying their desires. It is this factor that builds up lots of stress and leads to health complications.

03 Though Rajiv decided to change because of the circumstances we should not think that the nature of work or the circumstances caused the change in him. The circumstances just helped him to see himself better and deeper, thanks to which he could take the right decision.

04 Finally it is not easy for a wife to accept her husband's decision to change. For parents it is relatively easy. But for a wife a career change especially one like Rajiv's would imply a fall in the standard of living and hence painful. I would say it would require more courage on the part of a wife to accept such a decision of her husband than a mother or father to accept a child's decision. If you have doubts in this, please read Ms.Usha Krishnan's response.

05 Of course a decision like that of Rajiv is quite painful. I can relate to that pain because I resigned a well paying company job to be in practice. I could not make both ends meet with my professional income for the first few years. So I was forced to take classes for CA students. I wrote accounts and did lot of sundry jobs to earn money. And the very first saree I bought for my wife after marriage for "Aadi" costed just Rs.154 and I had just enough money for that. But I developed a lot of skillsets in those tough days which I could put to good use later on. So a change to a job one loves, on the whole builds a better person.

Thanks for the detailed response, Preethi, which has definitely enriched this thread.
regards,
Varalotti

safa · Nov 6, 2006

sorry for being late..

I do not want my husband to leave his job like Rajiv.I know he is not much happy with the present job(but happy with the salary).He would say , his ambition was to become a school teacher. The present condition in Kerala, compels most of the young people to find out a job Overseas. Every body provides their children, even if boy or girl, best education, good clothing and all the luxuries they can give..But when the children grow, the parents need to find extra more money to give higher education for girl and boys. For boys , most of the families send them to Bangalore or Coimbatore, so they could pay less donation for getting admission.
About girls, after they got high education, then in marriage market girls parents have to pay another big number of lakhs. From a poor family to a rich family it varies according to the money they owns. The middle class Gulf families give their girls, or getting for their boys, about 800 grams of Gold plus extra money or car. The things become worst among poor families. They try to get money from the girls parents before marriage. Among high class families the number of cars or lakhs increases as per their social status.
Living in such a society , forces many men to come back to Gulf (once they left the good job they had) in an age of 45 and above..
So we can't even think about quitting job. We love to live in our village house, love to plant vegetables around house etc etc........all are our dreams..'But we are compelled to live here.
Taking my experience, I can't completely allow my children to pursue their dreams. My father was like that kind. He didn't compel us to follow whatever he dreams but allowed to find out our careers. But no body became success. After two years of study of ICWAI I left it . Some times I would think, if he compels us to continue our study or he lead us in a way he like s things would have been changed..So in my kid's case I decided not to allow them to do as they wish.(my Hus is totally disagree with this, he thinks like my father). At least we can give them some good advices and show some good examples to follow ,I believe.

Preethi · Nov 6, 2006

I agree as well as disagree !

Dear Varalotti,

I agree with some of the points that you have made...True that many of us don't chase our dreams as far as our career is concerned, to meet up the pressure from family and the competition in the market, we grab the first possible opportunity that comes our way, immaterial of our liking towards the job...

But If you look little deep Varalotti, 'To Desire' is very easy, but to 'Face Reality' is extremely difficult.

Rajiv decision to come down from a lucrative pay to mediocre pay, shows his contentment in life, but it cannot be denied that if Rajiv had continued his job in HLL, he would have been in a position to offer more luxury to his daughters and wife than what he is giving them now, with his pay as a principal in school ! Well, because his wife and children have no complaints with that kind of life being offered to them, adaptation became easy, otherwise won't it be difficult for Rajiv, at some point, he must have surely regretted his decisions ! Rajiv choose to have happiness more in place of money, which has definitely made him so unique from all others !

One needs happiness Varalotti, I don't deny..but please give me an honest answer to my question - Can true happiness of heart alone satisfy all the social,economic and finanical demands of the person and his family?? If you honestly feel yes, than Rajiv is a person living a true life and his decision is right. If you cannot give an 100% yes as an answer, then we need to re-consider the decision of Rajiv as right or not !

Well, I differ in one of your point in your reply too...I feel its easy for a wife to be more supportive in taking the decisions of big career change in their husbands than parents ! I feel so, because wife can understand the desires and ambitions of a husband from practical point of view than emotional point of view, unlike the parents ! Look at the life of Mr. Narayanamurthy of Infosys, it was the support of Sudha Narayanamurthy to help her husband pursue a great career (which involved high risk), that had lead to the establishment of Infosys and has given them the identity what they own now ! And for Narayanamoorthy to come to that level, it didn't happen overnite, it was a slow progress over the years that made him a star, his wife had been a pillar of support to him all through the years ! In our day to day life, there are many sudha's supporting their husbands to do what they wish to do, Looking at your own life example, I can see the role played by your wife in letting you do what you wish to do, quitting you good pay job to do your practice, though it meant a fallback (for a temporary period of time) in your family financial needs.

I read Ms. Usha Krishnan post as well, I feel her decisions are based on evaluating the circumstances and situations in her family life. I don't deny her stand as well. The point here is that there are good number of Sudha Naranayanmurthy's as well as Usha Krishnan's in this soceity. Their decisions are subjected to various existent family situations and their plans for their family future!

My views are not to offend your thoughts (nor Usha Krishnan's) in anyway. Varalotti, please be gracious enough to forgive me, if it meant any hurt to you in anyway !

Thanks & Regards,
Preethi

bipasu_1950 · Nov 6, 2006

Warning bell-Were our tears real?

Bipasu,

Sorry for the delayed reply,

dear Varalotti,

My remarks on your article and replies and suggestions forwarded by our ind.ladies friends are the following.
In general,i feel that in our society,every parent wish their children to be in a safe position as regards,social and financial security.most of them even don't consider the likings of their children.Especially ,in kerala,every parent wants their child to become either a doctor or engineer(whichever branch,that is not a question)because,they think that only these courses are money making businesses.even if a doctor is not getting a suitable posting,he can open his own a clinic or a business in engineering.In their eyes all other courses are worthless and for this they are prepared to spend any much of money.But in most cases the children are not at all interested,which i know thru experience.In the real sen se the child has got no freedom to express his wish at least to his parents.There are a very few percentage of parents who are willing to gratify the wishes of their kids.Now the trend is slowly changing in the society,because the children have started to oppose the parents and they are standing against their parents.However,we can presume that in the coming days there will be a change in the attittude of the people.

with regards,
visalam.:wave

meenu · Nov 6, 2006

I too fall in line

Dear varlotti,
I am back after a breakand am motivated to express my views.I have been in close touch with many bright high school children for the past 15 years.I love their way of thinking. Many of them are very sure of what they do not want to do in life.I find that most parents set targets for their children even in their hobbies. Of course many kids too need a little guidance as to what they want to do in their lifetime. I think the parents should suggest ideas toachieve their dreams making sure that the child should know it is only a suggestion. the elders with experience of the world do know the cons better . The child can take a good decision if he knows cons better. My son on his graduation in engineering was very keen to do higher studies in US and he went too. But he said his heart lay in India and so after enjoying college there he came back. I feel after some years of searching every person utltimately knowswhere his heart is and if is bold enough he can pursue hisgoals. If his intentions are ardent those who love him will help him, parents or life p[artner,
Regards,
Meenu

sudhavnarasimhan · Nov 6, 2006

Dear Sridhar,

So much seems to be happening on the weekends...and i am busy only that time....but it was interesting to read everyone's views and your counter views etc....it made some good reading.
Well i take the liberty to say here that my husband resigned his job twice on the spur ofthe moment, [not to mention the other times] once on jan 1st as a part of his decision to stop working long hours and look for alternative less stressful jobs....i was sure his boss would have had a heart attack that day, sincethere was no reason for my hubby to resign...and he did not have an alternative job , nor did he discuss with me or anyone else. He sent this email to his boss and then told me. Well actually come to think of it now, i did not bother too much nor did i discuss with family, since i knew everyone will think he has gone nuts. But i gave him time to come out of this himself and let him handle it on his own.
Second time was a year after we landed here....he was upset with something in office and again quit with no other job and of course he told me the evening before he sent the official letter! So this time too i let him peacefully think for himself what he wanted to do....
In my case my husband quits job , sometimes for no rhyme or reason, or he is unhappy with it....and never has he gone for a better pay or stayed back in the same job when he was offered more salary.
In a way i am used to this, and being a very accepting , easy going person i dont bother too much. I know he will find something which will bring us our daily bread and shelter. And since we kept moving and to this day we have not invested in any house or bothered to save a lot for our future, my daughter thinks we both are crazy...ha ha...it seems to be the other way around. She has decided to open a savings account for us when she will start to work and save some money for us....:-D ...for our old age!( Our daughter is not letting us lead the life we want..:mrgreen: )
And in my only daughter's case i let her decide what she wanted best...and i can see she is very happy, though it is not a eng or doc., ....and till now i did not let the society around me to influence my life and family!
And my parents also let us do what we wanted....i could learn dance and am still doing so ....which shows that all parents dont restrict their children.Like everyone has rightly said, we want our children to live happily and SAfely too, that is why we insist on a good ecucation....but these days careers can be made with any good education and a burning passion to love the job or work You do! Maybe we will not be rich in material things, but surely successful in leading an otherwise rich life! What do u say!

Kamla · Nov 6, 2006

Dear Sudha..

What a lovely post from you. My admirations to you and your husband and your sweet daughter. I think God is holding an umbrella to shelter your family. I always thought your posts reflect the free spirit of yours and enjoy reading them. Now I realise how truely relaxed you are and not hung up about what the people around think! Come to think of it, the fact you reside in Germany makes you my fellow spirit! We too lived in Germany for so many years with no Indians around and like some troopers trudging along, no thought or plan for tomorrow! At a time when all the doctors were flocking to the US as it offered the best money and opportunities, my hubby did not even attempt to get through the necessary exams as he did not want to be lured by its attractions which might hinder his return to India. Another matter that we did not return!! But my husband is also one of those who lived his life on his own terms and not because he had to belong to a certain given norm. He never chose his jobs according to its pay, it was not always easy on me. But somehow we did manage through it all. On hindsight, I think we have lived a more quality life than some of our friends who have the mansion, but hardly there to enjoy it.

L, Kamla

varalotti · Nov 6, 2006

Yes Shahana, There Are Harsh Realities.. but..

Shahana,

Well you have poured out your mind on the stark realities of life. Daughter's marriage is a major financial commitment.

Rajiv's position was different. He had just started his career. He was not married at that time. His wife would have married a school teacher and not a highly paid HLL executive. So there is no problem over there.

In my age (don't ask me what it is) with a daughter in early twenties I would be the last person to advise quitting a job impulsively. But Shahana, we should also look into a very important factor. At one point of time or another in life, a person has to do what he or she loves to do. There is no need to resign the job if he can do what he loves in the spare time.

You take the example of my dear friend Mr.Raja. He works as a clerk in a public sector bank here in Madurai. In his spare time he talks in Patti Manram, acts with Rajni and does whatever he loves to do. Or take the example of Pattukottai Prabhakar who has written thousands of novels. He works for a Government organisation and writes in his spare time.

I fully agree that we men owe a fundamental duty to support the family and provide a decent standard of living to our spouses and children. But this duty does not extend to providing unlimited luxuries as there would be no end to that. My suggestion is once the basic family support is taken care of womenfolk should encourage him to pursue what he loves to do. Who knows he might become great one day. A great painter or writer, whatever it may be. But apart from all that if a man (or woman) does what he loves to do, he will stay healthy for a long time.

But the problem with us is comparison. Each one of us incomparably unique and nothing is served by seeing others life. I have my professional colleagues in the Gulf, some of the guys, I helped them to prepare for their CA exams. They are making about a hundred times of what I make. Never for a moment have I regretted my decision to stay here.

And Shahana, when you think of car and gold to be given at the time of marriage, please do think of many people who are much lower to us in their social status. What will they be giving? At any level of living, there would be hundreds above us and hundreds and thousands below us. They also marry off their girls and their girls also lead a happy life.

To some extent Sudha and Kamla have also replied on my behalf. Please read their posts also.
Thanks for your post, Shahana.
sridhar