Warning Bell - Were Our Tears Real?

anjana · Nov 4, 2006

Very interesting topic Sridhar,

Dear Sridhar,
This is purely my opinion. From what I read both your friends have been in affluent jobs. They have built their financial cushions so they can follow their dreams. In reality it is impossible to follow your dreams without that cushion. Believe me.
Now if my son comes to me saying Mom these are my dreams I would first make sure that his dreams are duable in the real world. He is fortunate that I have already built the cushion for him,therefore it is easy for him at least to pursue them.Everybody child is not fortunate as my son and may be that is why their dreams are shattered.
I do have American friends but their lifestyle is so different and they do not build finiancial security for their children and definitely not for themselves. But that is not the case for us as Indians. When you have that finiancial cushion you can at least try to pursue your dreams and if you are not happy you can always come back to what you where doing. Please share your thoughts on this.
Love,

varalotti · Nov 4, 2006

Yes, It was Food For Thought and you assimlated it well!

Dear Kamla,

As usual a very considered and a matured response. And very highly practical too.

And you have acted as a very responsible mother when it came to your daughter's wishes. While other ILites are yet to demonstrate the quality they profess to have, you have already proven yourself.

But having said that I still have a vague feeling that you are inclining a little too much on the safe side. Rajiv did not have the "fortune" to do it; he only had the courage to do it. And when he did his "fortune" was precisely what he lost, to a very great extent.

Agreed, it is not an easy decision. It is very painful but we will have to take it some time or other. Taxes, living conditions etc are only excuses, Kamla. Once you boldly go ahead with your decisions these minor details get worked out themselves.

I have been giving only personal examples. Let me give a very popular example. Krishnan was the Executive Director of Shaw Wallace. He was what we call in our profession as a triple-qualification holder. CA, ACS and ICWA. Something very rare.

Krishnan was being paid at the top of the market. He woke up one fine morning and decided that he had found his calling. Being a Sri Vaishnava he donned a religious role and plunged into bakthi marga. His discourses are famous.

I had the privilege of listening to him once. When he talks of bakthi, of true religion and God, you feel like hearing the words of a real spiritual master. You can almost touch the happiness of a pure soul which has found its calling.
Yes, he is the famous Velukkudi Krishnan whose discourses attract large crowds.

But you cannot have the cake and eat it too. If you want to do what you love to do then you should not mind getting less in terms of money. But you would get much more in terms of satisfaction and physical and mental health.

I have observed that the right career moves are always the most painful. But the pain is only in the initial phase.
Please ignore the people who cannot think outside the boxes of doctors, lawyers and engineers. In this both of us are in the same boat. When my daughter told a relative of mine that she has opted for BA literature the elderly lady commiserated with her, "Poor soul, your marks should have been very low. Otherwise who in their right senses would go for literature?" That lady's son did Engineering in a private Engineering college and is now officially unemployed.

I also read with interest your views on life in India. When you visit India you go to popular crowded places. Or prefer to stay in places like Bangalore and Chennai. But there are ways in which you can live a more comfortable life in India than in abroad in many cities. Again it depends on what kind of comforts and luxuries you prefer.
But the way of life is totally different between the US and India. Once used to one system it is very difficult to adjust to the other, though no one is better or worse.
Thanks for making me think so long and on so many aspects.
regards,
sridhar

varalotti · Nov 4, 2006

That's an interesting dimension, Anjana!

Dear Anjana ,

That is a brilliant observation. When I advise people about choosing right careers I never tell them to jump to their passionate job without minding the consequences.

In fact we career-counsellors always tell people to build "quit-money" When you are in a paying job that you don't like, at least try to build a big cushion which will act as a shockabsorber when you jump.

But a cushion will always be only that - a cushion. It can substitute a full-fledged bed or fully compensate the loss of financial benefits.

Anjana, tell me how many people today are interested in building a cushion to quit? Very few. In the US if the person is in a job she likes then she doesn't save anything. But if she doesn't like the job she virtually saves everything quits the job after 10 years and goes to the college to study again to become an artist or an actor. But tell me how many Indians have done that? How many Indians in high-paying jobs, who can afford to build large cushions have really considered changing careers midway?

Now about the doable dreams. When your son comes to you with a "doable dream" then he is going to be just one of Tom, Dick and Harry. But when he comes to you with an "undoable dream" (egs" I am going to link Ganges and Cauvery in India. I am going to win the Nobel Price for literature. I am going to invent an operating system for computers which will be better than windows or linux.) he is sure to become great.

And precisely when a person is the grip of such an undoable dream he will discord everything, would not bother about cushions and safety and make a direct plunge into the impossible.
Want your views on this, Anjana.
Love,
sridhar

sihi · Nov 5, 2006

Am back again!!!

I am happy to be part of IL family...thanks to the internet for making this possible . I must say that am honoured Sridhar, as you mentioned that you consider me as your friend. You don't have to apologize for asking the question (atleast not with me)...that kind of situation can very well arise in my life, infact in anyone's life.

Well, if my hubby comes one fine day and tells me that he wants to take the road less taken.....definitely my first reaction and response would be "how can you do it"? thinking about our daughter's future and also the financial commitments we already have (like house loan etc).
I honestly think that I will take some time to digest the fact if he tells me such a thing. Having a talk with him and finding out how much passion he has to do it, might help me get out of the shock. Slowly I might accept the fact and let him pursue his dreams. I would like to point out here that I am working too, so we as a family might be able to balance it out financially. But in families where the wife is not working and with the existing financial commitments it might be a little harder to digest for the wife or sometimes it might be impossible and the dream remains a dream!
Honestly, if I was not working, I would ask him to wait until we save something for our daughter's education or atleast plan for some kind of fallback option and then he can go ahead with what he wants to do and I will support him. Just like you mentioned about the friend of yours, who went to pursue his dreams but he had the fallback option of going back to his exiting job if he fails in his dreams.
I believe, as parents its our primary duty to make sure that we lay some basic foundation for our children's education and their future, just like what our parents did to us. He might turn out to be a big success in what he does eventually, but until then its like plunging in a dark well. I would support him but its not right for us to push our daughter into the darkness. When she grows up, she should not look back and blame us for not giving her a good education. I also believe that not the materialistic wealth but a good education is what we can give our daughter as "wealth" for her life, which I consider is a basic necessity.
I agree about the car being a luxury in India...its true. I even now drive my Kinetic Honda or prefer to take an auto when I go to my mom's place in Bangalore. I used to drive that while I was studying and working there before my marriage and I still do that when I visit now. Driving a 2-wheeler is a fastest way to reach your destination atleast in Bangalore (or Bengalooru). My brother and SIL do the same thing as you do, the car just sits in the garage....they use it very very rarely and even if they take it out, finding a parking spot is a nightmare!!! My SIL says she prefers taking an auto rather than driving in the car.
Regards,
Sihi

varalotti · Nov 5, 2006

The Most Sensible Answer, Sihi!

Dear Sihi,

Your response to my question (definitely an embarrassing one) was so balanced and sensible that had this been announced as a contest your entry would have bagged the first prize, hands down.

You have very rightly pointed out that a man owes his first responsibility to his family, especially his children. However great may be his passions, he cannot take a rash decision compromising his wife and children in the process.

There is another dimension to this. A person, who after creating a cushion and ensuring a decent standard of living for his family, jumps on to the job he loves, normally succeeds. But if he makes a sudden jump without minding the inconveniences of his near and dear, he becomes so desperate for success that he fails because of this desperation.

One negative example in this case is my hero Raghavan in the serial The Price. He resigns his job in a fit of emotional rage against his boss and desperately looks for an acting chance. He fails.

There was another friend of mine who got a job in State Bank of India (this happened long back). But this man was passionately involved with gardening. He recognised his passion but did not act rashly. He created a small garden in his backyard and spent all his spare time in the garden. Soon he was able to grow some exotic varieties of indoor plants which had tremendous cosmetic value. He then started a part time nursery and would open shop in the evening
(after his bank work was over) and would go up till late night.
Slowly his business grew and at the right time he quit his bank job.
He has grown so much now that the Manager of the bank where he worked is now approaching him for banking business.

You take the case of Director K.Balachandar. He was working as a clerk in AG's Office, Chennai. But his passion was in drama. He started a drama troupe and was working for that in all his spare hours. Only when he was confident that he could make both ends meet with his newly chosen occupation, did he resign his Government job.

In addition to the precautions you have stated, you need to ask one more question to your husband (of course only in imagination for the sake of completing this presentation)
What is the back-up plan you have if you fail in your venture? Psychologists say that when you are sure of the back-up plan your desperation level is low and that ensures an easier success.

Thanks for the wonderful response Sihi.
All of you ladies have responded excellently to this question. I am sure that my original post has to be read together with your responses to give the correct and complete picture of this most crucial issue.
regards,
sridhar

Chitvish · Nov 5, 2006

Perhaps I am the last, hopefully not the least !

My dear Sridhar,

All your replies to the ladies make very interesting reading. What I am quoting now is from personal experience and typical Indian way of thinking.

V has the triple-qualifications, you have mentioned about. When I was married to him, he was working in A G’s office ( yes, K B was his close friend !). I had a feeling that with his degrees, he was “rotting” in govt service. So on my insistence, he started applying for jobs. He got very plum offers from all over the country. My dream was, for him to take up a job in Bombay or Delhi, because coming from Madurai, I was fascinated by the very names of those big cities. But he decided to take up a job with TVS in Padi groups, Chennai, which was the least attractive offer. Needless to say, I was upset. But he convinced me that life in bigger cities will give us more tension and that life may be more exciting, but contentment for both of us may be less. He also emphasized that he would like to be near his parents in Chennai, as they were growing old. He also mentioned as a bait, that I could run to Madurai, overnight, whenever I wanted. Well, let me honestly tell you, I always have great confidence in his judgement and accepted it whole heartedly.
I can assure you that we both have never regretted, his not taking up the hefty offers.

The same way my son, a C A, after finishing MBA in the U S came back, got excellent offers from M N C s. But his mind was set on doing business. I don’t deny, we both were apprehensive, since in our family, all men are salaried people. We did have our reservations, no doubt, but decided to support him. We did not want to pressurize him to accept our way of thinking. Well, he did go ahead and is successful today. We both had decided that he should pursue what he was interested in doing than bowing to parental pressure. Ofcourse, I am honest to admit, that we had made up our minds to be his “shock absorbers”, if he ever needed !

I honestly feel, the decision should be the individual’s ultimately so that he will never regret that he did’nt do what he wanted to do in life. The parents as well as the spouse should offer all their “pros and cons” suggestions.

I cannot help adding that my highly qualified, brilliant friend and nephew have opted for living in a mofussil town , a very qualitative, contented life. Their brilliance could have taken them to places, effortlessly. But they decided that the quality of life they lead is more important than the quantity of money they could have easily made ! Their families, have whole heartedly stood by them.

Love & regards,
Chithra.

varalotti · Nov 5, 2006

As usual, you have added spice to the thread!

Dear Chitra,

As usual you have addes spice to the thread by narrating your personal, firing line experiences.

My respect and admiration for Mr.Viswanathan is increasing not merely because he is a triple (that by itself is very rare in our profession) but because of the strong value-based qualitative reasoning he has adduced for making you stay in Chennai.

It is these words that every mother should bear in mind while helping their children with their careers.

"I honestly feel, the decision should be the individual’s ultimately so that he will never regret that he did’nt do what he wanted to do in life."

And I cant help making an objection to your post. You have bunched your friend with your highly qualified and brilliant nephew. I am not sure if your nephew would accept that though your friend might have felt flattered.

Thanks for your post which has added a flavour to the thread.
regards,
sridhar

Varloo · Nov 5, 2006

Dear Sridhar,
I saw the video clipping and also the article. The questions you have raised are matter to be thought over very gravely.
I wanted to get trained in sports and athletics when I was in school. But, 'girls do not do such things' and permission was denied. Instead, I was compelled to learn Classical music because my mother wanted to learn and did not get a chance to learn.
I was very much interested in dress making and such things even from a very early age. I wantedt o go for fashion designing. But, in those days, education meant a degree or a post graduation or professional courses. My mother very strongly opposed my wish of learning to make dress. I had no other way than to do graduation. I got a job in Railways and did the job an enjoyed to the best. But I always feel that I should have followed my heart.
Now fashion designing is so popular and there are lots of oppurtunity now. My mother was afraid to go against the tide.
I do not know if I would have been very successful, but still .........
It would be a shock if hubby says that he is about to resign his good job to do something he really wants to. But I guess, I may try to understand his feelings and support him.
For my son, I am very much interested in guiding him in whatever he chooses to do. I do not want to burden him with my unfulfilled dreams and aspirations. I always make it a habit to make him choose his things.
And I want to tell about a friend of mine. He was a very successful business man, dealing in medical equipments with 2 of his friends. The commission for selling one equipment may bring lakhs of rupees. All three were just service personnel in a company before they started this business. Recently, he completely withdrew from the partnership and is now teaching Maths and Science in an orphanage in Thiruvallur, for free. Of course, he has a family.
Only very few people have such simple wishes and are bold enough to realise their dreams.
Thanks for bringing such soul touching topics for discussion.

Ushakrishnan64 · Nov 5, 2006

Dear Sridhar,
Warning bells rang...loud and clear...Sometimes I think from my head and not my heart..Will I ever be able to make a decision like Rajiv? the answer is NO.. I believe in earning money to have decent living, a GOOD saving for the education of the children and a reasonable sum to support my husband and me in the old age. I may sound like a 1930 lady (old fashioned & conservative thought). But that is what I am...
Now coming to the question of the spouse wanting to change profession, my god..I might get a heart attack..But if my children were to say that..I would reason out to them by weighing pros & cos (may be abusing a little bit for getting such funny thoughts:tongue )The decision will be theirs. You see a portion of my earnings are reserved for old age you see...So their subsistence is assured.
But I will never like my family to quit profession for their passion.. Profession is our bread and butter (only bread is not enough..butter is required also!).
Coming to think of Rajiv, I feel his decision was bold mainly due to his young age and his family commitments. If he had a family to support, a sister to be married and so on..would he have still chased his dream? I do not believe so..Only Rajiv can answer this queston.

Regards
USHA

Preethi · Nov 5, 2006

Am I Opinionated??

Dear Varalotti,

That was a good article from you again....Went through the life of Rajiv as well as the video clip. From my point of view, to evaluate Rajiv's decisions, All I can say is It's a good decision taken by him owing to his circumstances.....But to apply the same in our children life, Will I be so liberal in accepting the decision of Rajiv from my son or daughter, I need to really rethink my answer more than dozen times before coming up with YES or NO for it. Frankly because the clarity of my mind would be overshadowed by the love of a mother thinking for the future of my child, fearing her/his decisions might make her/his life miserable later. No parents would want to deliberately go against the wishes of their children, it's because they want the child future to be stable, they generally go for the most sought profession in the market and expect the kids to get into that profession thinking that would stabilise their life in the long run. If I am to apply Rajiv's situation in my children life, probably I might try my best to persuade them to change their mind if I feel their decisions are not wise, if they still insist, then I will let them have their way, Ulitmately its their own life and as long as they enjoy whatever they do we have no rights to stop them ! but would definitely give them words of advice to be clear in their choice and hardworking in whatever they do and be of support thereafter in all their attempts and leave the rest in the hands of almighty !

Varalotti, If Rajiv choose to become a teacher at the very beginning it would have been a different story, it's somewhere after he started his career, due to some unsatisfactory event that has led him to rethink his career, strangely the teacher job gave him more satisfaction that a big post in a company and he was happily stuck to it! ...from this its very clear that every decision taken in one's life is purely subjected to the situations and circumstances. So Rajiv decision is correct from his view point, as far as his parents, his decision was a shock to them as it hurt them indirectly as they feared this could be a wrong decision for their son, as his son cannot enjoy the finanical benefits that he had so far and he cannot stabilise his future in the long run with such low pay for him (compared to the standards of HLL), from their view point they were right too !

As I notice, it was more easy for a wife (In case of Rajiv) to accept her husband's decision compared to the parents who were shocked to hear rajiv's change in career. For any parents in general, I think its their old age and their mindset for their son's future that makes the BIG difference in their reaction. We young blood can face life and its changes more boldly than old people, in reality ! Isn't that true ???

But all said and done Varalotti, I think its more one's mindset to accept changes in their work or life, that leads to self-satisfaction at the end. Well I agree ,to leave a job that promises more perks and getting into one that give you less financial advantage, one needs to be bold enough (like Rajiv) to take that decision, considering all the pragmatic aspects and difficulties in our life. I can't say with 100% honesty that I will be a Rajiv at similar situations in my life. Looking at reality, money is fundamentally the most essential thing to keep us going. We need not be money-minded for ourselves, but for our kids, to give them quality lifestyle and education, money plays a vital role ! (Our parents would have done the same to us, they are giving us all that luxury that they were deprived of at their young age and this will continue to subsequent generations too), So any career changes has an impact on the family in view of the finanicial stability that it offers in the long run. And very few emerge being an exception to the normal clutches of finanical commitments that comes attached with our life.

Whatever may be the case, person's like Rajiv need to be admired for his decision and for his contentment in life and for being an exception from the general crowd!

Love,
Preethi