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Unexpected Fallout With A Friend

Discussion in 'Friends & Neighbours' started by hridhaya, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. hridhaya

    hridhaya Gold IL'ite

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    Long post alert, please bear with me.

    I recently had a bad experience with a friend and we both have stopped communicating with each other after the disagreement. I would like to know what you think and what you might have done differently if you were in my situation.

    This friend of mine, who was my neighbor and a friend for 7 years, also became the owner of the house we had rented from someone else. When she came to look at the house before buying and asked if we would continue as tenants if they bought the house, I gave her a heads up that we had intentions of shifting to US in the near future but I could not confirm the plans to her since the our relocation plans were in initial stage.

    After the house ownership changed, we signed a new rental agreement. Initially both families were in favor of signing a 11 month rental contract with a 2 month notice period but all of a sudden they changed their mind to do only a 3 month agreement with us. We decided to go with the flow as we didn't have other options. Later our visa came through and we moved out of the apartment. My friend and I departed like any two individuals who were going to miss each other and promised to meet in future. Little did I know what was coming after.

    We reached US and amidst settling down, I started to ping her to find out when she was going to return our rental deposit. After a few reminders, our money came back and we found that they had deducted 1 month of rent (which amounts to INR 45,000) from the deposit (which equates to 6 months of rent) we paid them. When asked about it, she replied that we didn't paint the house before we moved out and we didn't let them know we were moving out 60 days in advance. There was some heated argument between us and we haven't spoken after that.

    We disputed on following points and would like you to look closely and tell what makes sense.
    1. The rental agreement bears following two statements -
    •The lease shall commence on dd August 2018 and shall be in force for 3 months thereafter, i.e. till dd Nov 2018. The Lessee shall communicate their intention to extend the lease by dd Oct 2018 and the new lease shall thereafter be executed for such periods and such terms as both the Lessors and the Lessee may mutually agree.

    ................................

    •The lease can be terminated by either party to the Agreement by giving 60 days notice, in writing of its intention to terminate the Agreement or by giving a notice and paying in lieu for the same.

    We assumed that they wanted to know by dd Oct 2018 if we were moving out or not and hence disclosed our confirmed plan 15 days ahead of that date when we were in India. But she used the 2nd clause and said they weren't given 60 days of notice which means we should have told them in the month of September. This reply didn't make any sense to us at all.
    2.Our house was locked for a week as I was visiting my relatives and we let my friend use that time to paint the house.We thought that we were helping them to find a tenant quickly as they didn't have to wait to paint till we moved out bag and baggage. At that time, she didn't mention anything to me that we were expected to pay for the painting expenses. She later mentions that it was a known custom that tenant has to paint the apartment before they moved out. I wish she was little kinder to me and told me in advance that this was coming instead of throwing it as a surprise much later. Felt it was a cheap act on her part. To accommodate the painters, I had to rearrange lot of stuff in the house in addition to packing my luggage before the day of my travel. I took this extra trouble for her but it was not recognized or appreciated.
    3. While moving out, we left behind a couple of safety installations for the house, that we had paid for, hoping the next tenant might need it. When I asked my friend later if she accounted for those expenses, she replied she doesn't have much to say on that. Since we left them voluntarily without them asking for it, she is not expected to pay for them.
    4. In our apartment building, people who don't have cars rent out their parking space for those who need extra parking. My friend has been using our parking. She owed us parking charges for those 3 months. I inquired her about that and she replied that she would pay only for 2 months since she had started to park elsewhere from 3rd month. This change wasn't communicated to us at all. How can she then decide herself she would pay only for 2 months?
    5.I gave her some of my good bake ware as she enjoys cooking. I don't expect anything in return but I wonder if my relationship meant anything to her. I just wish she was more thoughtful and considerate to me as I was (or at least tried to be) with her. Instead she treated me the way a house owner might deal with a tenant.

    I am not really sad that the friendship ended because I have always sensed some sort of discomfort with her even though she was one of those people with whom I spent more time together. She has been a decent friend to me and we have some common interests. On the other side, she is a person of self righteousness and has lot of self interest in mind. But I didn't act on my instincts and gave her a long leeway. That's my weakness. At the same time, it is little difficult to believe there is nothing left between us after being together for 7 years. It is difficult to reconcile with her because she is not the listening type. I don't trust her anymore and so I don't want to patch up either. Something still bugs me. May be I feel fooled/cheated or didn't find her intentions early enough?

    My kid has her own set of friends in the apartment and she wants to meet them when we visit India. Even I have other common friends in the apartment whom I want to visit. After this incident, I feel awkward to go b and wonder how would I react if I bump into her?
     
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  2. mangaii

    mangaii Finest Post Winner

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    Let us remove the emotional and friendship and analyze the situation from owner side
    When you rent a house and if you are uncertain about lease agreements you will eventually loose some money. This is inevitable.

    Good she didn't do that. It actually helped your case.

    I think 60 days is needed for any one to find a new tenant. This is norm. I'm not sure about the painting part. It depends on how long you stayed in the house
    That assumption was wrong
    This is not correct. To find a tenant and if they need to move in the process has to be started at least 60 days ahead of time. The reason is there is negative cash flow in this case .
    I think she was. Ideally she should have charged 45 days of rent.
    Money is money. There is nothing cheap about it.
    Again you should have communicated clearly what is expected from you before moving out
    This was done on your will not requested by owner. So this cannot be asked to be paid
    She would have thought the same thing see my friend is being cheap. When it comes to money there is no concept of cheap
    Yes she could have been but when you assume too many things this is what will happen
    After 7 years of friendship if this is how you feel I think feelings are mutual between you two .
    She shouldn't define your interaction with other friends in apartment. Keep the awkward feeling away and enjoy interacting with your friends.
     
  3. peartree

    peartree Platinum IL'ite

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    Good riddance, seriously.

    Unless there was something you specifically did to spoil the paint, it is on the owner to paint before the next tenant moves in. My parents have been renting our house for the last couple of years and not even once have we expected the tenant to bear the cost of painting. About the lese terms, both points seem to sort of contradict each other, so probably checking it at the time of signing the lease would have been prudent.

    Nevertheless, I don't know why you feel awkward about it. Go and meet your friends to your heart's content. Don't let the bad experience of your former friend inhibit the relationships you have with other people.
     
    hridhaya likes this.
  4. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    The language is quite clear. Lease started let's say Aug 15.
    - It was in effect till Nov 15.
    - If lessee wanted to extend lease, last date to indicate such interest was Oct 15. After that, it was up to lessor (owner) and lessee arriving at a mutually agreeable lease with possibly new conditions.
    - The last date for lessee to give notice of vacating was Sept 15. If no such notice was given by Sept 15, then Nov 15 remained the vacating date.
    - Similarly, lessor also had to give 60 day notice if they wanted to cancel lease before scheduled end date.

    It is an understandably wrong conclusion on your part as the lease was for a short duration, but it is a wrong conclusion. dd Oct was the last date to indicate interest to extend the lease.

    Put it down to experience and a lesson learnt. If you go out of your way to help someone, do it after they request it. If you do it of your own goodwill, ensure they are aware of it.

    You could contest this as the requirement was not part of lease agreement. But, even if you don't paint, she can deduct from deposit saying house was not left in good condition.

    She is right.

    Was the arrangement in writing? If not, it is another lesson learnt -- put things in writing. But, even after that, who will enforce the agreement if person won't pay.

    She kept friendship and financial agreements separate.
    That is ideal. That allows tenants to deal with house owner like they would deal with any house owner.

    Don't complicate it. Give communication with her a gap for now. If and when trip gets fixed, ping her by text, say you will be in the city. Briefly say that you hope to meet up and hint that you are not interested in rehashing the past. "Hey <friend>, we are going to be in town in June. Let's meet? To catch up (not to rehash the past). ha ha." Or something like that.

    I personally would avoid meeting, and if I bump into such an ex-friend, I'd be polite but cool. Even if she shows exuberance and meets very warmly, I'd keep the meeting's temperature to my preference. Life in general is short, and time in India trip even more at a premium.

    Don't blame yourself (or even her) for the friendship going sour. Don't look for patterns in the past or what was wrong with the friendship. Business/financial agreements and friendship rarely survive together. Even a small arrangement like buying grocery items in bulk from warehouse (Costco) and splitting them with a friend puts a strain on friendship.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
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  5. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    @hridhaya,

    I have been leasing out our apartment in India for last 10 years. I am some what familiar with the process. Generally, the notice period is strictly enforced if tenants don't give notice. But most of our tenants did give notice for us to find another tenant. We had it in lease agreement, if anyone leaves within 11 months, they need to pay for painting charges. But even when tenants left within 11 months, we never enforced this clause as most tenants consider the deposit as their money to be refunded. Only once I have adjusted deposit for painting, as the tenants' daughter had drawn in all the walls including in the kitchen.

    Unless car park charges are in the contract, it is not enforceable. Your friend was nice to pay for two months. It is your responsibility to take all your belonging out of the apartment. The owner can charge for removal of your items from the apartment. If you leave things voluntarily, you can't expect owner to pay for it. If you have given 15 days notice, she has a right to adjust deposit for other 45 days as per contract. The fact that neither of you issued two month notice, it can be assumed that intention of both parties is to extent the term of the lease for further period. If the lease expires, you can't assume the lease terminated automatically unless one of you issue notice, if you continue to live in the apartment.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
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  6. armummy

    armummy Platinum IL'ite

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    The contract was only for 3 months .hence 60 day clause does not apply if you are not breaking the contract. Did you complete contract or no.

    I am not sur of painting. Did not hear it.

    She was behind money .. if you want talk to a lawyer to get your money back else good riddance.

    Don’t feel awkward to go to apartment , go and enjoy with your other friends
     
    hridhaya likes this.
  7. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Good point! I assumed the contract was broken and OP was charged for full 3 months.

    If OP moved out on dd November when lease ended, then, the 60-day notice does not apply. The 60-day notice applies if OP wants to break contract and move out before dd November.

    Any rent charged beyond 3 months does not make sense. Maintenance/repair/paint costs is a separate matter.
     
  8. shravs3

    shravs3 IL Hall of Fame

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    I don’t know the city, but in Bangalore the tenant is supposed to bear the painting costs.
    And since you left few things voluntarily I don’t think it’s the owners mistake. Either you should have communicated before or take them along with you.
     
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  9. hridhaya

    hridhaya Gold IL'ite

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    @mangaii ,
    Thanks for your reply.
    Agree. It applies to both owner and tenant. Owner should not corner the tenant for their gains.
    If we had removed those, she or the next tenant would have to spend equivalent money that we spent in the first place to install the safety nets in the balconies. Removing the nets would serve no purpose to anyone and it was much needed in the community we lived in for some reasons. Whether they acknowledge or not, they of course are benefitted by it remaining there.

    We informed them 45 days in advance. Not 15 days. We were in that house for 1.5 years and my friend became the new owner since the last three months of our stay.
     
  10. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    @armummy and @Rihana,

    We still don't know all the clauses in the lease agreement. There could be automatic extension clause as I have never seen any owner renting for 3 months unless they were planning to occupy themselves. Generally leases are for 11 months with auti extension for another 11 months if no notice is issued by either party.
     

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