The importance of VEDAS in our culture.

most enlightening post on castes!!

Dear Chitra & Sheela,

You both came up with a beautiful explanation on Caste system.

Its unfortunate that our society has taken to caste so seriously that it has completely divided our country & has done no good to anyone.
Like you've put it rightly, it has only done irrecovable damage to our society.

We never entered our caste in the school application for my daughter & chatting with the office staff of my daughter's school, I heard a lot of parents refuse to write their caste in the forms. I felt happy at that & wish all think alike and try to avoid mentioning about caste anywhere.

Todays political parties literally thrive on castes so wonder if our society can ever be caste-less. But again, with our country's economy booming & trying to stand at par with so-called developled countries, we can't afford to have such obstructions as castes now.

 

sheela, this is for you!

Hi Sheela,

That was one real piece on caste system and origin of brahmins. Just one query , is there a solid source from where you collected these evidences, since i too browsed on the net and could not get any material!
I would be grateful if you let us know from where you gleaned so much of info. Also the Aryan invasion etc are much debated subjects which are not accepted by many historians....and also Sanskrit as a language and the Manu dharma...concepts.....if you can shed ore light on this it would be good....
but maybe we should not discuss on thso forum by Chitra on Culture...you can start a new thread on caste system maybe, if you have more sources to let us know. Well what do you think? :|

 

to Mrs Chithra & Sheela

Dear Mrs Chithra, Sheela,

It is informative to read the various explanations given by all of you on the caste system in Hinduism.

Especially, Mrs Chithra, you have presented a balanced view, a trait seen in your recipes and slokas also. I can spot the research you have done to write a piece like this.

And Sheela, what a piece. Like Sudha, I too would like to learn abt the sources, blame it on the occupation hazard of being an academic.

Here are my two cents on this.

All religions preach love and tolerance. Yet it is sad that it is the distortions in religions that come to mind when we think of them. I am thinking of the caste system in Hinduism, disparity in treatment of women in Islam, self imposed social exclusion in Judaism, militancy in Sikhism, conversion in Christianity- the list meanders. Yet none of these define or denote the religion in its spiritual basis or fullness. And yet none of these distortions are sanctioned by the spiritual foundations of these religions.

Take caste system itself. I am now reading The Argumentative Indian by Amartya Sen and Medieval Mysticism by Kshiti Mohan Sen. Both these talk about the origin of the caste system in Hinduism. Initially there was a group of people in the plains who were subject to constant invasions from outsiders. Since the natives were unorganised and unprepared, they could not protect themselves and lost. So, they decided to classify themselves strictly on the basis of occupation. Thus arose the caste system based on occupations.

What is beautiful in the initial structure of the caste system is the absolute equality among castes. Within a family, the father would be a warrior, one son a trader, and another a teacher. Also, individuals were free to change occupations even after initial choice and re-assign their castes. So, one could start as a farmer and then do priestly work. Or start as a warrior and then become a trader. Such moves were not vertical, but lateral. And not irreversible.

Safa, in your question there was a brief comment on skin colour. It is sagacious to note that this point has been disputed even among learned sages in ancient times. In the Mahabharata, Bhrigu tells Bharadvaja that caste divisions relate to differences in physical attributes of different human beings, reflected in skin colour. Bharadvaja responds not only by pointing the variations in skin colour within every caste, but also by the more profound questions:' We all seem to be affected by desire, anger, fear, sorrow, worry,hunger and labour;how do we have caste differences then?'<SCRIPT><!--D(["mb","
\nThere is also a genealogical scepticism expressed in the Bhavisya Purana. \'Since members of all the four castes are children of God,they all belong to the same caste. All human beings have the same father, and children of the same father cannot have different castes.\'\n
\nNone of these arguments tell us why caste system changed/evolved/mutated into what it is today. But the origin seems to be a social structure based on sheer economic division of labour.
\n*
\nAlso Safa, it is sad to hear that some were not allowed entry into temples even as recently as you went to school. Especially after Temple Entry Proclamation, Hindus subject to the common civil code of India, are not permitted to discriminate on caste grounds. \n
\n*As, I said initially, such distortions, and deviation between philosophy and practice are seen in all religions. All religions that preach love and tolerance and compassion of God.
\n\n
",0]);D(["ce"]);//--></SCRIPT> </P>
There is also a genealogical scepticism expressed in the Bhavisya Purana. 'Since members of all the four castes are children of God,they all belong to the same caste. All human beings have the same father, and children of the same father cannot have different castes.'

None of these arguments tell us why caste system changed/evolved/mutated into what it is today. But the origin seems to be a social structure based on sheer economic division of labour.

Also Safa, it is sad to hear that some were not allowed entry into temples even as recently as you went to school. Especially after Temple Entry Proclamation, Hindus subject to the common civil code of India, are not permitted to discriminate on caste grounds.

As, I said initially, such distortions, and deviation between philosophy and practice are seen in all religions. All religions that preach love and tolerance and compassion of God.
</DIV>

 

Dear vidya,

Thanks for the explanations. I know about the Temple Entry Proclamation law.I have mentioned in my question, it (not allowed to enter in the temple) happened before years and wanted to know why this caste system created.
I believe all religions have deviated from the original by the decision of some selfish people. I don't have too much knowledge to talk about this.
Hope no body's feelings have been hurt.If yes pls forgive.

 

Thanks Chitvish ma'am! I am starting with the very post by you! (I may be an irregular visitor for the next two months - my sons are home now and then I will be travelling to India for 3 weeks)
It is a source of pride when I read about the great treasure we have inherited in the Vedas. It is always accompanied by a pain that my life-span will not be enough to understand, appreciate, and follow all that is given in the Vedas. Unfortunately I did not learn Sanskrit to appreciate these writings. That would be my other regret.

 

Dear mami,

Very enlightening thread on vedas. Read it today only and also your explanation on varnashramam, which matches with what paramacharya had said about it in deivathin kural. Mami, I found that there was no more addition on the latest CD on rudram chamakam and vedas . Can you update on that now?
thanks

 

Dear mami,

I was referring to the following posts appearing in page 2 , though it was in the year 2006.

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In karnataka CD s by Challakare Brothers are available & very good. In Chennai we get Prakash Koushik's Rudram chamakam & many others. If you want I can do a " market research " of the latest releases & get back to you !
 
 

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I will do window-shopping for veda CDs & get back at my earliest !
 

Since further there was no mention about the Cds, I checked up with you now(in 2010) :hide: . In case if you have anything further to add, pl let us know, as I too am interested in rudram chamakam especially and then vedas too.