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Saas Vs Saap

Discussion in 'Snippets of Life (Non-Fiction)' started by Viswamitra, Dec 26, 2019.

  1. shravs3

    shravs3 IL Hall of Fame

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    Omg when I first read the title I thought it’s was comparison of MIL with a snake
    :tearsofjoy:
     
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  2. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Thank you Thyagarajan Sir for your detailed feedback.

    Since many ILites are IT professionals, I thought they would relate to such abbreviations similar to Software as a Service ("SaaS"), Infrastructure as a Service ("IaaS"), etc. I didn't realize that SaaS and SaaP are specific abbreviations in the Relationship forum referring to MIL.


    There is a Vedic School in Florida that let American students to enroll for 4 years to educate themselves in Scriptures and learn Sanskrit. However, it is not specifically for someone to become a Saint.

    I didn't mean to talk about a specific Saint as many have preceded him in winding up their operations due to criminal activities not only in India but overseas as well.

    There is a famous Church in Florida which collects involuntary contributions from wealthy people stating that they need to transfer their wealth to reduce all their sins. This is becoming a modern trend with state-of-the-art technologies. Ancient Gurus taught austerity and let the contributions flow to the poor setting an example themselves by leading a simple life.

    Self-transformation requires personal discipline including inquiry and discrimination to differentiate right from wrong. It is life-long exercise and unfortunately in the mundane world, most are looking for instant rewards. That resulted in these kind of Saints mushrooming everywhere.

    The real education should happen with the people more than the authorities. As long as people are gullible, there will be cheaters. These Saints are the reason why many don't lose faith in religions.

    Thank you again for your comprehensive feedback.
     
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  3. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Sabitha,

    Seeking exists with everyone as I believe the urge to be one with the Universal Absolute is an inherent nature in every human being. Inquiry leads us to identify what we are seeking. But unfortunately, many don't even know what to seek or too busy with living and look for an instant gratification by doing something associated with seeking.

    I have studied the teachings of many who later ruined their reputation through their criminal activities. Unfortunately, our mother country has rich knowledge available everywhere for seekers. When someone collects this meta data and provide it in an easily understandable way, the seekers get carried away. Some of the meditation techniques, Yoga techniques, self-curing, etc. were extraordinary to read. Besides, scientists in the US published how a particular Saint controlled his mind in 2 hours to completely eliminate brain activities. These are impressive for anyone to believe.

    However, the Saints have to be beyond suspicion. One or more of their activities could bring a significant downfall. Unfortunately, bad fruits are not sold separately and they are always mixed with mostly good fruits. Only when people identify more often those bad fruits, they begin to understand the quality. In general, we were all raised as tolerant people and hence whether it is politics or religion or education or healthcare, we are too tolerant until it affects us directly. Unless there is serious awareness among people, these things are not going to be fixed easily. As long as such call outs are not for extraction of money from a wealthy Saint, more and more people should increase awareness among people. If Saints could defend themselves through technology and have many prominent citizens to defend them, the people who found flaws in their organization/system, should have the right to call them out with clarity to caution more and more people getting involved.

    Satsang is good as long as it is for the common good of everyone. If it is to promote or propagate a cult, then it becomes malignant to the society. It is unfortunate even today, mostly, those who had suffered are the ones who continue to identify such criminal activities. Perhaps, the money power of these Saints make even journalists to be careful not to write about the Saints. Despite such things exposed earlier, the influence and connection of these Saints prevent the Government from taking actions.

    Seeking is good as long as one understands the pitfalls one could encounter in such seeking.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
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  4. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    @shravs3,

    Thank you for visiting this thread.
     
  5. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan IL Hall of Fame

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    THANKS AND REGARDS FOR FURTHER inputs enriching the thread and enlightenment.
     
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  6. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    A wide topic of discussion, Viswa. Perhaps we need an informal definition of saint and sainthood so we are all on the same page.

    I am trying hard to imagine such a person living successfully in society and being an active part of it, but failing to do so. Must be a limitation of my imagination.

    I think here anyone who goes about sainthood in a "professional" manner, with focus also being on effectively spreading the word and result of his learning and experience, seeking more followers etc. has been painted in a negative way. From my limited knowledge about this, I'd say there can be the bad ones among those who practice SaaS as well as SaaP.

    I obviously don't know much about saints and sainthood. I'll end this display of my ignorance with a question - which category would the types of S.N. Goenka fall under?
     
  7. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Let us assume the informal definition is renouncement of desires or becoming a Sanyasi or Sanyasin.

    It is hard for anyone to not only imagine but to meet such a person as they are rare. A few have existed in the past. I have interacted with a few and heard about a few as well. There may be a few existing now, if I care to look for them.

    Generally, the ones that renounce genuinely is looking to share their knowledge and experience voluntarily without any rewards. They don't practice that as a profession or sell anything. Mostly, people seek them without them marketing their services. They lead a life of austerity without any fanfare. In case of those who are genuine in renouncing, take only voluntary contribution and distribute all of them to the well-being of the society through service. There is definitely another category that actively market their services and focus their attention on accumulating wealth and conserve the wealth. That is why I defined them into two categories.

    I have heard about Vipasana meditation of S.N. Goenka but don't know much about him personally.
     
  8. Agathinai

    Agathinai Gold IL'ite

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    Sannyasi is from my understanding a person who hasn’t any worldly desires and relinquish everything for attaining the Lord’s feet. They were present before. They were good gurus as well. The money which came as donation to their institutions were given for charitable reasons and they lead a very austere life.

    The ones which I had recently read about don’t fall under that category unfortunately. Even though India has lots of economic issues, these people don’t practice what they preach and do get political support and gather wealth beyond imagination. It’s so sad to see how people fall for such people and waste their hard earned money. I was appalled to read many such incidents in India.

    I can tell many good sanyasins or Gurus in ancient times. We don’t have to go that far. Ramana Maharishi is Saint who lived an austere life.

    Nandanar saying was “kaadarundha oosiyum kaanadhu kaan kaidaivazhikke”, meaning even a broken sewing needle doesn’t come with one at the end of life.

    Seems such preachers are kind of extremely rare and I have not found them in recent times. When they make people enter their ashram and preach the people to renounce everything in their life and become residents, they don’t the say that to themselves and their families. Their families are living a lavish life based on the donations. It’s not a small amount. They are a huge amount as per the news online. Isn’t it swindling away of public money? How people are blinded by devotion to fall into such traps is still not understood by me.
     
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  9. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    @Agathinai,

    Thank you for articulating the difference between good and bad so nicely. You are right about many Sannyasis leading austere life donating all the money voluntarily contributed to them, to the poor in the past. They were role models. Rarely, we see such principles among many such so-called Saints. As you say, it is a puzzle how people blindly fall into their traps.

    Ramana Maharishi unfortunately left his mortal coil before I was born. I had the privilege of reading his teachings. However, I had golden opportunities to meet some rare Sannyasis who lived a highly principled and austere life.

    Viswa
     
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  10. HariLakhera

    HariLakhera Platinum IL'ite

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    Dear Viswa,
    I must admit the title SaaS and SaaP is a little confusing but then I thought why would you indulge in Mil and serpent issues comparing one with the other unless of course you are on a research mode on the subject for spiritual enlightenment.
    It is difficult to say what makes a person to renounce and go for making an inquiry of spiritual nature for understanding life. If Siddharth's dilemma is any indicator, I guess the root cause of all spiritual inquiry is dissatisfaction and disbelief of what is seen around. Some do find answers but most fail. Those who find answer are unable to reveal them in a understandable language. That is to suggest that each one has to take his own journey and experience it.

    The second category is disgruntled souls. These souls are so dissatisfied with life that they want an easy route for survival, wearing saffron and begging. They can be found all over the religious places.
    The third category is of cunning types. They understand human weaknesses and how to exploit them. Some of them master the art of Tantra or jugglery and lace them with high sounding words. Their target audience is poor, illiterate and orthodox souls. With tit bit donations and cheating they are in a position to lead a comfortable and luxurious life.
    The fourth category is those holding high positions in established religious trusts scattered all over the world. They keep close with high ranking government officials and enjoy all perks that money and power can give.
    It is difficult to find a true saint these days.
     
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