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problem with investing - really a problem?

Discussion in 'Married Life' started by sandu, May 20, 2009.

  1. sandu

    sandu Bronze IL'ite

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    Dear ILites,
    I am in an embarrassing and difficult situation. I shall try to describe it as crisply as possible. Thanks in advance for reading it!

    My husband and I live here with our 1.5-year old girl. My husband is the sole earner. We support his parents and younger brother who live in India. As far as our life in the US is concerned, I have great financial freedom. We together decide what needs to be spent, bought, etc. But, when it comes to investments, it is a totally different story. My husband sends lumpsums to India for use by my in-laws and for investing. We rarely talk about savings here (we dont save except the minimum in US). My husband informs me he sends XXXX dollars to India (monthly about 70% of his take-home sal and benefits). My fil takes money for their expenses (he gets pension too, but that is not enough, I guess) and invests in FDs, stocks, mutual funds, etc. in the names of my husband, my mil & himself. These things my husband and fil discuss and do. My husband now and then informs me of what is being invested. Till now, I haven't been objecting to their doings.

    But these days, I am getting uneasy. We have got some big lumpsums like benefits, arrears of my job (I dont work anymore), etc. I started showing my concern to my husband about that being properly invested & showed him the info I gathered about financial planning. My husband told me that I need not bother about it and that his father is there to take care of it. I dropped the matter there.

    I must say that my in-laws are respectable people and really good at managing the finances themselves. They spend carefully and dont live luxuriously. Still, sometimes, I see some differences in some situations how they handle money and how we handle. Like, they help their siblings with loans of lakhs (and get interest on that). I must mention that my in-laws, esp. fil is a reliable person when it comes to money. He would not invest without my husband's concurrence. No secrets between them. But is that reason enough to let things be managed by him?? I must admit that I have felt uncomfortable financially on a couple of occasions - like,
    1. When he asked my husband if he can put my sign to get back a matured FD (reason fil gave: the bank staff had advocated that approach because I am his family member and I wouldnt complain). I outright rejected to my husband saying that I will sign it when I go to India, or he can send that by post. This angered my husband.
    2. When my fil asked my husband if I had transferred my Scooty to his name (the vehicle which I had bought before marriage). They even planned to give it away to my sil without telling me and raked up a huge fight.
    3. When he asked my husband why I did not bring with me the savings I had before marriage.
    (I have informed my husband that I will add his name as a nominee to my old bank account in India, to settle the problems we had in this regard.)

    My in-laws put such ideas into his head and my husband sides them and fights with me. So, I am in two minds about my in-laws financial handling. Sometimes, I chide myself for fearing the worst, because my fil really saves for our future (as he says & he shows me the documents sometimes) but at other times, esp. after reading other threads over here, I feel I am being naive and inactive.

    Actually, I have mentioned these things a little while seeking your advice on another matter in my earlier thread. But since there were other pressing problems, I let go of this one till now. Many ILites told me that my husband is immature and that I must show him an example by behaving maturely myself. Some of you encouraged me to find a job and show him how I manage my finances myself. Well, that isnt happening. I have been looking out for one for a couple of months, but no success yet.

    My husband thinks he is doing the right thing because
    - he wants all investment to be made in rupees as they yield more interest. Also, it is easy if his father does them, because still many things cant be done on internet with Indian banks/companies.
    - investing in his father's name gives more interest & less tax because he is an old-age citizen
    - all along it has been his father who has been handling things, and he would feel that changing things now would make way for them to comment that he has changed after marriage, throw tantrums, etc.
    - it works smoothly, so why change?

    I feel my husband (& I) are more to blame than my in-laws, because it is my husband who is allowing things to happen this way. Isnt it?

    My husband is in favour of the jont family system and respecting his parents wishes (who by the way like investments being made in their name). My husband is a religious follower of his parents. To make them feel at ease, he does silly things like merging my jewels and their jewels when we put them into the locker (yes, in-laws and we share the same locker). On another occasion, he got terribly offended when I took stock of my jewels and told me that that is wrong, that his parents would be offended if they know that (??!!!??). He told me that I feared that my in-laws would hand over my jewels to my sil.

    So, when I speak about finances, he would certainly take guard and restart making the old accusations that I am trying to split his family, that I am not behaving as ideal wife/dil, etc. Another major worry I have is that he accuses my family of giving me suggestions to speak up against him. He wrongly thinks that my parents are behind the issues that crop up between us. (Needless to say his accusations are false). He mistakes them to be behind the moves that I take after getting advice from IndusLadies (like speaking up for my rights, arguing with him, etc.).

    After reading many people's doings and experiences here, what I want to happen is:
    1. All investments should be in either/both of our names. Not in in-laws' names hereafter. (I am also puzzled how they can invest in my husband's name without his signature... is it possible?? Can someone educate me?)
    2. We should hand over money to in-laws for their expenses periodically. They should not be taking how much ever they want on their own.
    3. We should invest ourselves without any middleman.

    My questions:
    1. Am I wrong in expecting these things? Or am I being paranoid? Would it really amount to splitting the family, esp. because his family is a close-knit family? I respect my in-laws and dont want to create problems unnecessarily.
    2. Is it imperative to solve this problem now? Or can I wait further? Till may be I get a job?
    3. How to speak to my husband without hurting him? How do I make him understand what is the right thing to do?
    (I have noticed that my husband learns from examples, of other people. If he sees many other people doing things a particular way, he would oblige. One good idea is asking him to read your replies, but I am unsure of that move...)
    4. What are the ways to invest in mutual funds & FD's of small banks (my fil finds out attractive schemes of banks which may not offer internet banking) sitting here?

    I am stuck up thinking about the pros and cons. My husband is a very, very sensitive person. I dont want to upset him and strain our relationship. He keeps alluding to the past bad times sometimes, still, and blames me. So, is it worth the trouble bringing up this finance issue now? I want you people to advise me how serious this thing going on is. My husband and I are just limping back to normal after a huge rift last year during our India visit. I am very particular that I should not be destroying the peace we have now. People here have advised me to practice discretion... how do I do it now?

    Thanks a lot for your patience and in advance for your advice.
    Sandhya
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2009
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  2. Priya16

    Priya16 IL Hall of Fame

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    Sandhya,

    It's not very easy to break your financial situation.Typically parents they don't harm kids but only wish ,suppose if they have 2 sons and one son earning is quite good and other son is earning less,they wish to see the other son also in good condition.
    Ask you husband since all your money on your FIL name,suppose in case of any emergency (u know what I mean right ,u need to ask him politly)how we get our money and how people knows that it's our money we invested there and since it's in FIL name typically the two sons can get equal rights.
    Suppose if some investment goes towards his brother is he ok with that.That way you will know his intensions.
    Since you family has this kind of arrangement,I am pretty sure we are all worried about our future and towards kid future.Why don't you take some amount every month and save by yourself.After you get good amount you can save on your name in fixed CD something like that.
    But handling finances by your FIL is not easy to break .

    Coming to other questions about ur bike and your money before marraige.They are typical talk with in-laws.If that comes again say ask your husband what happend to his money before marraige.

    Even my husband asks me sometimes and I get very irritated about it.They think we are there own property .

    You may get best advises and this is just my 2C.

    Sandhya,You just get 1% more on senior citizens.You don't have to put in zepody whole money just for 1%.
    These days lot of including SBI has online account.Just take a look it.You may need to open one time account when you go to india and there after you can manage money on your names without much headache.

    I know it's pretty tough situation to take out money from there hands because DH's don't see how we see.
    Another safe bet,buy some property on both of your names.You can register from here on your names.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2009
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  3. asuitablegirl

    asuitablegirl Gold IL'ite

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    You seem to have brought up this topic a couple of times in these forums, and each time you get responses saying to handle your own savings and keep track of what is going on. But you never do it!

    Rupees earn interest? So do U.S. dollars! You can't handle an account in India? Open one here. If you want to know your investment options, visit your local bank and they will point you in the right direction. I think it's stupid that YOUR investments are put in your fil's name. Suppose God forbid your marriage doesn't work out... husband cheats and you divorce, husband dies and inlaws turn against you, etc.? You will be in a tough situation. I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but it's better to think of all life's possibilities and be prepared than be caught by surprise.

    I don't mean to imply anything bad about your inlaws, so please don't take what I've said in a bad way. It's just I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with other people being responsible for such a big part of my life, especially if I were not able to ask them candid questions or openly evaluate their decisions. JMO.

    EDIT: Mangai has pointed out that interest rates are good in India... I'd just like to clarify I'm not saying "NO" to India investments. They definitely sound more profitable, especially given our bad financial situation here in U.S. What I meant was if you are investing money in India account, at least know what is going on. Also, no problem in letting FIL handle the transaction, at least know what the transaction IS and WHO'S name it is on. I still advocate at least a small savings account here that you can access fast in case of an emergency.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2009
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  4. mangaii

    mangaii Finest Post Winner

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    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2009
  5. Malyatha

    Malyatha Gold IL'ite

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    Power of attorney. Your husband MUST have given his father POA, for this to be possible.

    This will be hard to achieve, given how absolutely BULL-HEADED your husband is.

    As above. You can, AND you should, but your hubby needs to understand and agree to this.

    You are NOT wrong to expect to be able to handle your own finances. In fact, how else will you learn? HOWEVER, if you truly trust your in-laws, then I would say that you should let this go (at least for now). In fact, you are lucky to even state that you can trust your in-laws. Many people simply cannot. Furthermore, as I just said, if I were you, Sandhya, I would revisit this issue at a later date, as you currently have a *lot* of other things on your plate.


    If you TRULY trust your FIL to be honest and fair, then you should hold your horses. At the risk of sounding like a worn out record, let me repeat that, at present, you have plenty of other things on your plate. So, let this go - for now. As soon as your situation changes (for the better, as for instance, when you get a job), then revisit this issue. Currently, you will only make your hubby dig his feet in even more!

    Yedupar kai pillai-ya? Then, there is NO harm is telling him to read our responses. It cannot work against you, and, furthermore, will let your parents off the hook, where your changed attitude and new-found assertiveness is concerned. He will realize that it is NOT your parents who are whispering in your ears and putting ideas in your head against your in-laws, but that it is your friends (here on IL), who are urging you to be the adults that you both are, and to manage your finances yourselves!

    Moneycontrol.com is an excellent website to learn about the Indian stock market. If you are interested in buying stocks, mutual funds etc in India, then you should open a DMAT account (I have one with ICICI), and just wire transfer funds to your accounts, as and when you can, to invest directly in the market there. Regarding bank schemes, municipal bonds etc, just ask your FIL for the info and/or allow him to make these investments on your behalf. Shouldn't be a major issue if he is REALLY honest. If you are not comfortable with this set-up, then I would only look into such schemes when I visit India and am able to buy bonds / make deposits by myself without FIL's help.

    Sandhya, please hold those horses. There is a LOT going on in your life right now. DO NOT, I repeat yet again, DO NOT rake up these issues right now as your marriage is just beginning to settle down. If, as you believe, your FIL is TRULY an honest man, then I strongly doubt that he will rip you off between now and a few months down the line (when things are, hopefully, much better than they are now). So, please do not choose to fight this financial arrangement between FIL & Hubby JUST YET. Pick your battles and remember that discretion is the better part of valor.

    Bide your time as NOW IS PROBABLY THE WORST TIME for you to rake this up. Focus on healing your marriage for the time being and spring this a few months down the line when your marital affairs are settled satisfactorily (at least to some extent).

    Good luck!
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2009
  6. Visu2k

    Visu2k Gold IL'ite

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    Sandhya, you need to keep track of how much you and your husband or sending over to india for investing. If you have information, then you can ask valid questions - about how much returns are got, what the current status is and so on. Please get an inventory of the FD number, jewellery, property deeds that was bought out of your money. Then you should be able to understand how much your money should have grown in that time.

    One thing I don't like in this whole setup - is the possibility of your FIL combining his money with your's. Later on this will be difficult to assess, if he claims that all investments are his.
     
  7. amma1981

    amma1981 New IL'ite

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    Hi,
    I understand your situation.but i am happy atleast your in laws are investing in some way.u know my case.i am not working and my husband earns desently(not very high).but except for your food and rent my MIL takes all your money and we dont know what they do.and for all expence in the family we have to spend.now we are short of money and struggling but she is keeping mum and did not help us at all.:bonk:rant
     
  8. sandu

    sandu Bronze IL'ite

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    Dear ILites,
    Thanks to each one of you for reading my post and giving your suggestions.

    I have formed the following things to do, based on all your suggestions.
    1. Politely ask my husband (not now, but at the right opportunity) about how to get funds in case of emergency.

    In our next India visit (at least after 6 months from now)

    2. Eventually, make an updated balance sheet (we have one already) and keep track of the money. This needs inputs from my fil, so I think we can do this only next time we go to India.
    3. Property in our name - very good idea.
    4. Get an NRE joint account in my & husband's names.


    ASG, speaking to my husband and getting things done is not as easy as you think. It has taken us 6 months to get over the rift we faced last year. Had I spoken to my husband about this earlier, he would have shown me the door. I agree with the remainder of your post. Esp., that I should know what is going on in India...

    Malyatha, I see what you mean. Yes, I feel it is not yet time to speak to my husband about this. I completely agree with you that I should not act in a hurry and repent later. I am searching vigourously for a job. And I am still in 2 minds about my in-laws intentions, though I am inclined to believe them. But reading your response many times made me really think... Are my in-laws really trustworthy??
    And, I am 100% sure my husband has not given any POA to anyone.

    Visu, yes, that is what is happening. The money we send to India "seems to be" pooled together with my fil's pension. I have no idea what he does with his pension, but I am sure that it isn't enough for them. My husband does NOT mind if my in-laws mix up our savings with their money. This is the basic problem. To him, his parents are more important than me and he would accept whatever they do.

    To be more precise, the earnings of my husband (the greatest contribution), my fil & myself have gone into the purchase of the current house they occupy in India. Similarly, when they lend money to others (relatives), fil uses both their savings and the money we send.

    My in-laws spend on everything ranging from their expenses, bil's education to gifts for sil's family (my fil also saves in the names of my sil's children...), etc. And some things which I personally dont like - like visits to astrologers, "parihara" they suggest (really expensive), etc. And of late, on my fil's siblings and their children too. It is not really possible to know which money he spent (whether his own or what we send)...

    Yes, we have online banking and NRO account and all those stuff. But still this is what happens. My fil quotes tax worries for splitting up the money and investing in different banks/schemes (& in his/mil's name). Hence this confused setup of mixed finances.

    My fil says that my husband is irresponsible & would waste money (which is not true). That is another reason he is involving himself to this extent. My fil has told me long back he maintains accounts of everything, and I have been believing him. But what worries me is some of their statements and behavior - like my mil proclaims to the world she bought some jewels which in fact we purchased. They tell us that the house my in-laws had built is for their daughter (because her in-laws "expect" it!) while the house which my husband purchased (with about 10% contribution from my fil, which is way below the worth of their own house) is for my husband!!! I am not at all interested in inheriting my fil's property, but What I want to know is - does their behavior present any red flag to you people? My mil is again interested in pooling the money and getting another house - "we" would have to repay the loan, but she has already opined that she wants the house to be in her name.

    Tell me, am I missing the red signals and just being naive? Or, would implementing the 4 points I stated at the beginning of this post be enough?

    Regards,
    Sandhya
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2009
  9. Priya16

    Priya16 IL Hall of Fame

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    Sandhya,

    If you don't have house in USA,please go for house.That's why the money which you send to india will go down.
    I know we can't just fight with our husband's for these issues and put our marraige in jepody.It's not easy to deal this situation.
    Next time when they are planning to buy something,please ask to buy on your names.Big NO on your MIL name.Because typically girl's will have right on mother's property.
    Another thing your father can write the "will".So check with your husband on this.Because no one knows if something goes wrong.If something on your fil name all the son's can get equal rights.Tell him,It's good intension FIL is doing all this.But we need to know what is our share and what do we get.You can't earn all this money again.
    By looking at your situation,only one thing i know that parents likes to give money equally to all the kids.Even my MIL wish for this all the time it's called family property.It's like your FIL property where kids will get everything.

    Take Care.
     
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  10. Visu2k

    Visu2k Gold IL'ite

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    Mixing money is always bad. First you should start with how much money has gone to India - this you should be able to get easily by seeing the bank statements for all these years. Once you have them, then you can separate how much was sent to your FIL. Once you do this, just keep this info with you.

    Then you get the list of all investments your FIL did for you and compare with the funds you sent. Investments don't include money that is lent to relatives. Investment should be on properties, bonds/mutual funds, jewellery etc.

    I also see your FIL lending your hard earned money to his relatives is bad. Even if your father invests for you, he should inform you where he is investing each sum of money and you should keep a note of it. Otherwise you won't know where your money ends up, you may even lose it. Also what if (God forbid) something is to happen to your FIL. How will you know where he invested your hardearned money. What if his debtors refuse to return the money back, as it was only given on goodwill.

    You need to convince your husband that you are NOT against your FIL. But you are against the fact that you or him are NOT AWARE of where your savings are locked in. Insist strongly with your husband that you both need to know where your money is. Just your FIL saying that he has kept account of all the money is not enough. You need to know that. Once you know have this information, then you and your DH are better armed to make a proper decision. Well and good, if your FIL has indeed done some wise investments and helped grow your saving, but if you know things are otherwise, you and your DH will surely know what to do.

    Lastly, please intensify your efforts and get a job. Once you have your job, you can start saving and don't have to rely on your husband. You and your DH are taking too much risk in relying on your FIL. I am not saying that you should stop believing in your FIL, it is just that you need to have control on your earnings and there is no point in regretting later on others mistakes.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2009

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