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Practicing Caste System In Own Kitchen?

Discussion in 'Friends & Neighbours' started by Rihana, Nov 25, 2018.

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  1. kkrish

    kkrish IL Hall of Fame

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    As I would be unprepared the first time I am not sure how I would react.
    Perhaps I will jump up myself and take the plates, etc. to the kitchen to save many an uncomfortable situation for all the invitees, for that evening only.

    No, it is not "OK". However, it is the child's responsibility to tell the parent that or avoid inviting friends for the duration of the parent's visit.

    I came back to add this... I hope the hosts apologized to their "non-privileged" guests for the parent's behavior.
    *******

    We sing the song written in the 15th century (Sri Annamacharya) ... especially this line :

    Mendaina Brahmanudu Mettu Bhumi Okate Candalundeti Sari Bhumi Okate
    (
    Be it a "Brahmin" (man of the highest caste) or "Chandala" (man of the lowest caste), the earth they live on is the one and the same.)

    ... then turn around and behave just the opposite.

    Sad... just sad!
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
  2. kcb

    kcb IL Hall of Fame

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    Not at all OK.....host knew about her mom/mil's beliefs very well, so she should either convince her mom/mil to not to discriminate her friends or avoid inviting friends to her home during their stay.

    If people are not allowed into someone's kitchen/pooja room just based on their caste, then what about entering the temples? Temples are more sacred compared to pooja rooms....

    If her mom / mil religiously believes in those types of superstitions, then they should be made aware of a famous saying - ATHITHI DEVO BHAVA ......guest is like God and we should treat our guest with respect and we should not hurt them.
     
  3. Srama

    Srama Finest Post Winner

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    Dear Rihana,

    I kind of feel sorry for your friend. Perhaps it is wise for her not to have get togethers, but then her visiting family may feel slighted if she did not invite others when they were visiting and so may be she feels obligated but then has to deal with this.

    As much as I would like to make a point, I am a very loyal person (go figure!). For me, my friend is more important and knowing that she in her life is beyond all 'this', I would personally humor the visiting family only because I want to be supportive of my friend and help her through her conundrum. I might end up instead of taking it straight away to the kitchen offer a "Hey, this is quite a lot for you to do alone. I can help. Do you want me to take to the kitchen" (loud enough so that the visiting MIL/Mother can hear) and allow my friend to make that call.

    Absolutely not! It is not Okay!

    For the visiting family, what ever happened to
    "When in Rome, do as the Romans do[1] (often shortened to when in Rome...)[2] or a later version when in Rome, do as the Pope does,[3] a proverb attributed to Saint Ambrose, means that it is advisable to follow the conventions of the area in which you are residing or visiting" - source wikipedia

    And you know what, as I thought of your question I think of my house and I realize to get to our family room, it is through the kitchen!!!
     
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  4. armummy

    armummy Platinum IL'ite

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    First of all how does elder woman know the caste of all the women present .

    Does the women present there disclose their castes to each other or guess from surnames ? If the women volunteered caste names , first the younger generation needs to come out of this backward thinking.

    I would not be visiting the friends house for the duration.
    There should be no encouragement for such behavior
     
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  5. Sweety82

    Sweety82 Gold IL'ite

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    On one side. OK. Other side. Not OK. Sorry for two responses. May not be the caste system that plays here I think. I may be correct or not. Visiting women guests May or may not be menstruating and the homeowner cannot question this to all women out there. So better to avoid this the homeowner might have taken the cup by herself. But u only know the true picture. Based on writings Iam responding. Some people respect god through their bhakti they have by following their way of culture and doing poojas.
     
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  6. Amica

    Amica IL Hall of Fame

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    I totally agree with Mr R.

    I would not visit that home. I can't see being friends with a couple who condone caste-based discrimination in their own home.

    The MIL/mother follows "beliefs" based on convenience. She got on an airplane surrounded by passengers she looks down on and sat there during the long flight minus her "beliefs." She ate food and drank water on that flight cooked/served by people she won't allow in her kitchen. Every time she consumes anything in the USA it has passed through the hands of people disallowed in her kitchen.

    Every bit of that kitchen has been installed by unbathed people of a different caste, wearing shoes, following a meal including beef/pork. The statues she prays to were transported to this country by people she won't welcome in her kitchen.

    When it's convenient for her, "beliefs" fly out the window. When it involves hurting someone else's feelings, "beliefs" are important to her. Puh-leese!

    As for the daughter/DIL, she puts the convenience of having a pleasant relationship with the mother/MIL over the feelings of her friend and guest. Why maintain a friendship with someone who values friends so little?

    Whatever happened to Atithi Devo Bhava? Not part of their beliefs?

    What should you do as a guest in these circumstances? Whatever you want the next generation to practice. They are watching and learning even when you think they're not.

    Your friend is not unique. Several years ago, we found ourselves in an almost identical situation. One of our "friends" had a visiting "orthodox" MIL and requested us to help her keep another friend out of her kitchen and away from her MIL for caste-based reasons. We left. As did the other guests.

    It came down to a choice between the hypocritical friend and the friend of "lower" caste. Everyone has to stand up for what they believe in at some point. And actions will always speak louder than platitudes.
     
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  7. poovai

    poovai Platinum IL'ite

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    It is the host responsibility to make her guests feel comfortable;

    Few friends with similar background, the elders came here to stay permanently and they seem to handle it nicely. When there is a party in their home, the elders retire early to their room / watch TV in a separate room. A few stops by to see the elders, i.e, the 'allowed list' and the rest stay out of their way. It is those unwritten rules, we follow?

    How do we explain these things to our children, our next generation?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
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  8. noire

    noire Silver IL'ite

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    Spot on!
     
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  9. Amulet

    Amulet IL Hall of Fame

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    @Rihana,
    I thought I'd come back and post another one, because in my view, some of the responses are mixing up people's responsibilities in public spheres and their private rights to associations.

    I do not have a lot of experience in/with India; however, all cultures observe their private rights to associate with whom they want to associate with. Jews, Chinese and Indians (ancient cultures) have these systems. In public spheres they associate with all with whom they could have a profitable intercourse. However, they would have a private life, where they invite those who they prefer to invite. In America, private clubs that exclude jews, chinese and blacks/indians* continue to exist, whereas in public, and in large corporations, we follow the government set regulations of equal opportunities. [*indians=ojibway, anashanabi, hopi, lakota, navajo, pai, havasupai, and the like...]

    The visiting MIL/mother may have followed that custom. She could've preferred to keep her home, kitchen, god-room or god-closet as a private space for herself and select others, whereas when she went out into public space (restaurant, airplane cabin, etc..) she'd have tolerated the public, because that would've been a profitable exchange.
    I like that hi-falutin' idea of one bhumi; we often talk about it when discussing global-warming. In India I have an extended family. They (we?) interact with brahmins/pundits/what-have-u only at deaths and during the planning of celebrations. To them/us, Brahmins are a poor lot, hanging about in Temple Tank area at the local temples, waiting for customers to come in to seek their services for such happy/sad occasions. Once again, such associations with the so-called "high-castes" come only when it is profitable to those who seek such associations/services. Not for associating with them in mundane social get togethers of friends, happening at home. For every group/clan/caste/class there are nuanced differences between whom they'd associate with in the public versus in their own homes, and when. That is just the way the [proverbial] cookie would crumble.... no matter where you live.

    I, as well as my firangi-children would behave differently when in an "office party" as opposed to when invited to a private desi home. In the latter venue, we would feel free to be "at home". Chappals/shoes in the foyer, and but for that, we'd be at home to loiter within polite bounds.

    [firangi = foreigner]
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
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  10. kkrish

    kkrish IL Hall of Fame

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    I am forced to respond because I was quoted.

    Pretentious idea?
    I don't think so. I strongly feel it is a healthy idea. Only when such reformers go about it, will there be some social change in the outlook of others.

    It is because of such words, and other reformers such as Sankaracharya, Ramanujacharya, Madvacharya, that our society has improved from very rigid discrimination to relaxing them somewhat, though it has taken generations.

    Social reform takes many generations to occur.

    **************

    Folks are not opposing " practicing caste system privately".
    Folks are opposing "inviting folks to one's home and then discriminating them based on caste".

    Agreed. We all know that "groupism" exists and will continue.
    Then stay within that group.

    I have absolutely no objection to what each person or family believes in "in their homes".

    In this instance, the parent is fully entitled to practice, enforce, and control her children, with her beliefs; within the family.

    Knowing her strong aversion to certain castes, she could have told her children to not invite other caste people. Or the children should not have invited them. Or taken some action "within" the family and made a decision before inviting the guests.

    My routine, beliefs, eating habits, on normal days is a set one. However, when guests are present I set aside all of them and make other concessions for the duration of their stay.

    The moment we open the door to guests, it becomes public interaction. We have to make adjustments.

    Right. So there are set norms for how we behave in other places than we do at our home right?(highlighted). That is the guests responsibility.

    Similarly, there are certain norms on how to be hosts.
    Not imposing our rigid belief on guests is certainly one of them; and definitely not if is open discrimination.
    **********
    I am not mixing up responsibilities in public spheres and their private rights to associations.
    That's because I strongly believe that responsibilities in public spheres influences private rights to associations, and vice versa.

    This will be my last post here.
     
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