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Practicing Caste System In Own Kitchen?

Discussion in 'Friends & Neighbours' started by Rihana, Nov 25, 2018.

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  1. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    What would you do if you are a guest in someone's house (in the U.S.), visiting along with other women for 2-3 hours. The mother/MIL of the homeowners is visiting from India, and she kind of "follows" caste system.

    In the sense that people of 'lower' caste are not allowed into kitchen since it also has god-room or god-cabinet.

    All of the homeowner's women friends have had access to the kitchen otherwise and have long chats there as she makes coffee. Now, we are restricted to living room area mostly and each time a certain woman is moving towards the kitchen, like to put a cup in the sink, the homeowner jumps up to take it herself.

    Meetings are casual, not for any pooja. I happen to be in the group allowed free access to kitchen even with the older lady around.

    Two questions:
    - What could I do in such situation? Once in a while, jump up myself and take the plate, cup,dish to the sink?
    - Is it "OK" to follow such practice when visiting child's house?
    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
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  2. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    I am usually happy to stay put in the living room. I don't enter other people's kitchen if it inconveniences them in any way.

    Is it "OK" to follow such practice - I think yes it is quite ok. The visiting lady is from another generation. This is a concession younger people can make for her.

    Better-half disagreed strongly. Along the lines of, "in this time and age, who practices this. In the US! What if a repair person needs to enter kitchen? When will people give up such beliefs!?"

    I argued that the visiting lady does not mind allowing women in the kitchen during their time of the month. That in itself is a big step forward for women from that generation. Change takes time.

    Couldn't convince better-half.
     
  3. Agathinai

    Agathinai Gold IL'ite

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    Don’t know about others but from my view I have to agree with your better half opinion as I too strongly disagree with such beliefs and behaviour. Such a behaviour is surely not to my likes; this is the most one can do to degrade a person as much as possible in life. When one has such beliefs better not invite other groups of people but rather stick to their own group. Here I meant their own caste.

    Even if I have a very high threshold for tolerance and can move on thinking about the personalities of such people; why would I agree to have my husband or kids get exposed to such behaviour. Better to avoid such people or stop visiting them until the visitors leave.

    This is my personal view and I would probably do the same if encountered same in real life. I shared my views. That’s all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
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  4. Amulet

    Amulet IL Hall of Fame

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    We had a box of disposable shoe-covers in our house front closet. When we had workers bring in their own step-ladders, we also made sure that the legs of those ladders were covered in cushiony socks.... or the better-half jumps in and provides those covers.

    :facepalm::facepalm:Wood floors keep us awake at night !! If some critter escaped into our house, (to hibernate for the winter), we would be inclined to hunt them down, clip their nails and put over-socks on their feet.
    Cats are OK, because they keep their nails in, and already walk on cushions.

    The title of this thread (caste system in the kitchen) makes me want to volunteer that we practice Apartheid in the Laundry -- separate the whites and the coloureds, and have them be with their own kind.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
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  5. Vedhavalli

    Vedhavalli Platinum IL'ite

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    It may feel weird. But this particular kitchen/Pooja room thing happens with current generation too, not only mom/mil age group. I mean people from 20s to 30s... Early 40s .
    When my PIL visited US, mil would never eat in any friends place who are not vegetarians. Many close friends of my DH from college time would invite for lunch/dinner with veg meals as menu. Yet mil would refuse because cooking utensils, dinnerware would/might be used to cook non-veg.., my DH myself would just maintain she wouldn't eat outside(which is true by the way) But once a vegetarian friend invited and we had to refuse them too. Because word would pass by, really tough.
    When going to trips always - electric cooker, electric griddle and home made podi, chutneys.
    Mil/mom wouldn't let anyone in kitchen not because of 'caste' it's because they maintain super clean devoted sanctum type.
    Till now they don't enter kitchen without bath and small Pooja. Growing up years was tough until I had bath can't go to kitchen or Pooja room..even post child birth it was must to bath in early morning. Don't ask about those'5' days.

    Practicing such things based on caste system is definitely biased and not right..., Entering kitchen or Pooja room with shoes is big no no.
    Maybe the host can communicate the guest about mil orthodox believes if they are good friends. Because we allow only close friends to kitchen and other interior areas, rest are only with living room.
    It's matter for few months , in my view let's not make big deal with mil/mom. It will create rift in family.

    For people with veg and non-veg it's another battle.
     
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  6. yellowmango

    yellowmango IL Hall of Fame

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    The friend deserves more respect from the friend group than the elderly following abnoxious customs.

    The best option would be not to meet up in that home .
    If I were the friend being discriminated ...I would be deeply hurt by the friends not taking a stand .
    The friends are educated and living in a first world country. They have no excuse to tolerate this nonsense.
     
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  7. Brevity

    Brevity Gold IL'ite

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    I would stop visiting their house for the time being. And no. It is not OK to set your rules in someone else's home. I know that it is tricky with in-laws and parents. Still a practice as medieval as this requires no concession.
     
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  8. peartree

    peartree Platinum IL'ite

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    While I wouldn't call this kind of behavior out in front of the friend not being allowed inside, because I wouldn't want to start a fight in front of someone else, I would definitely address this later on with the elder and explain to them that these things do not work once we have crossed over the "seven seas"!! Thankfully, neither my mom nor MIL believe such things, so have not had to deal with such a situation.

    My sister's MIL is actually very orthodox, so much that she doesn't allow even us to enter the kitchen if we have not had a shower and is quite particular about how things are done, especially on special festival days and occassions! So we all just let her be. But she also does so much for our domestic help in terms of financial help and support that we don't even understand whether she is wrong or not!! She just gives without reservations, so her orthodoxy just comes across to us as a quirk. I am not sure what our domestic help/driver etc. feel!! She also never practices this with little children. So we never understand her.

    On a side note, I am quite particular about vegetarian food, in that, if I go to eateries like Subway etc., I ask them to not use the knife to cut my sandwich, ask them to change gloves etc. I am not sure if that is correct or not!!
     
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  9. Agathinai

    Agathinai Gold IL'ite

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    I came across this old snippet by @jayasala42
    Very touching and inspiring story.

    Thought it was relevant to some extent to this topic. So shared here.
    Maatru Bhiksha
     
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  10. noire

    noire Silver IL'ite

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    It is not OK to indulge this abhorrence just because they are older and from a different generation. I think you should just stop meeting up in that house, give her a taste of her own medicine. The old woman practising this, and living in the US taking advantage of their progressiveness, would do well to remember that many white people around her probably feel the same way about her. What if she goes to a restaurant and some white patrons (or let's say the restaurant owner) object to her being there? Would she expect her friends to stand up for her or not?

    And would the same friends who turned a blind eye to her poor behavior also turn a blind eye to the white patrons' poor behavior? You bet they would. Because, condoning bad behavior is not some lenience you allow someone because of age (or whatever reason), it is because of cowardice and lack of empathy.

    I am in my early 40s. This is not a thing that happens only in the older age group. When I was in my 20s, I used to seriously believe that the abusiveness and violations that are so prevalent in Indian society would die down when our generation took charge. That didn't happen. It won't happen, because there will always be a group of cowardly apathetic people who lend their silent support to such atrocious behavior.

    Reflect for a moment: our high caste Indian brown skin is not looked upon favorably by many white people in the US now. Are you any lesser than them? If you are discriminated against, would you want your friends to just slink away with their tails behind their legs?

    Case in point: I'm sure the sentiments of the kids in this picture are exactly the same as those who don't allow lower caste women into their kitchen. Good luck, humanity! ABC News on Twitter
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
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