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Paradise Divided

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Balajee, Aug 7, 2019.

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  1. Balajee

    Balajee IL Hall of Fame

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    arumummy absolutely. If the government's claim is true that situation is a lot better than ever before, they should have had no hesitation in holding elections. Instead the entire state is put under curfew, pilgrims and tourists are unceremoniously kicked out of the state The move will not benefit businessmen either. Who would want to invest in an insurgency ridden state? The move has not ended insurgency, it will only fuel it.
     
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  2. satchitananda

    satchitananda Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Balajee, while our are fears are logical and reasonable, I would rather wait and watch which way things go. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions quite yet. Trouble will definitely be there (not that there has been none so far), but how long it takes to settle and how things develop from there is something nobody can predict at this moment.

    My only concern is that in the name of development, they should not destroy the natural beauty and ecology of the region or alienate the poor people who are right now on their side by snatching their farmlands for building industries. Hope they plan things well, now that they are starting from scratch and not trying to develop overcrowded cities the way it is in many places.

    The clampdown cannot last forever. They will have to withdraw it soon enough.
     
  3. yellowmango

    yellowmango IL Hall of Fame

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    The people of India have given the govt a mandate for removing these articles.
    It was a part of their election manifesto.

    It is easy for people sitting far away from the problem areas to talk but different for people who have to suffer.
    How easily people forget the days when bomb blasts and shootings of innocent people were common events.

    Someone had to take this action for a long term solution .

    Let us not forget that these articles were not asked by the people of kashmir. It was created by politicians to safeguard there personal political interests.People who do not want rules that hold them accountable for the extreme corruption and loot of the state by the shameless politicians.

    The govt has promised that the statehood will be restored when things cool down peace returns .
    We should keep our political differences aside and back the govt in their effort to find a permanent solution. Not doing anything is not a solution.

    I am no Modi fan...but I will back the govt when it comes to actions that make us stronger and the terrorists weaker.
     
  4. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Balajee,

    Israel did that systematically on occupied land belonging to Palestinians. Settlements have been ongoing activity in Israel for over 35 years and they almost changed the composition of the population into Jewish land instead of Islam majority. The American Government watches this silently and on top of it any legitimately elected Congress woman who speaks against atrocities of Israel is considered antisemitic. Moreover, they are ready to mediate between India and Pakistan but not able to do that right between Palestinians and Israelis for many years. Most Americans hate the US policing the entire world, starting unnecessary wars instead of setting an example how to be a good democratic nation.

    Article 370 was wrong in the first place, a give away by Jawaharlal Nehru during partition to win the Prime Ministership against Mohammad Ali Jinna. India used to be a role model for many Western countries to remain secular but now the way aggressive policies are implemented in India, with the Prime Minister setting a personal example to be aggressive promoting Hindu agenda. It is becoming like America where President is fanning the White Supremacy resulting in increased gun violence related deaths of innocent people of color in this country. Hopefully, some sense will prevail from both parties to stop this gun violence through legislation.

    May be the Government lack the backbone to find out what is the popular opinion of the people of Jammu & Kashmir, when they changed the status maintained for these many years.
     
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  5. yellowmango

    yellowmango IL Hall of Fame

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    Almost the entire hindu and a big sikh population was cleansed out of Kashmir .
    What was that? What was the reason for that?
    Was that not a religious cleansing?
    What was the purpose?

    How is trying to undo that unfair?



    kasmiri women marrying guys from PoK retained property rights but women marrying outside J&k lost the right to property and their children could not inherit the mother's property rights.
    What was the purpose of that ?


    Why are such questions not asked when hindus are the victims?
    It is this hypocricy which is making Modi and his party stronger.
     
  6. satchitananda

    satchitananda Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    While two wrongs do not make a right, it is this very policy of shameless appeasement politics which has brought the country to this state of affairs. All these decades of my life, I don't remember ever seeing such a divided and polarised country. We have always been proud of our secular policies. Somewhere along the way people started noticing how one 'minority' community which is not really such a minority when compared to other minorities is treated like God's gift to humankind - in the name of secularism. How come none of the other minorities complain? How come they are not scared living in this country? All this is nothing but dirty politics. Whenever any situation in life goes to one extreme, it is a simple law of nature that the pendulum will swing to the other end before it comes to a balanced state. It does not matter whether we like it or not - it is only bound to happen ..... and that is just what we are witnessing now.

    In this case people have lost faith in the so-called 'secular' parties which have ruled us so long. Now we have a situation where another party comes along and almost wipes out the other parties. Not a happy situation for any democracy. Now if we are unhappy with this party or their policies, we have nowhere else to look. We have, as of today, no other viable option. So the best we can do is to make the best of what we have got while trying to keep democracy working and waiting for some more credible parties to come up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  7. soulful

    soulful Platinum IL'ite

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    exactly! why is one particular community's life and rights more important than the other? Why is nobody talking about the rights of the Kashmiri Pandits who were driven out of their homes if they did not convert? The current Kashmiris are playing a dual game. They say the Pandits are their brothers and are welcome but cry hoarse about removing 370 and 35A because they believe it will alter the demographics of the state. So what if it alters the demographics? Why is nobody calling their bluff? It is NOT about self determination, or plebiscite or Kashmiriyat. It is plain and simple about preserving a particular community's hold on the land. Because if it was about Kashmiriyat, Pandits would still have had a home.

    Why was this kingdom given rights during accession while the other kingdoms weren't? It was for narrow political gains by Nehru and Abdullah. WHy was the opinion of Dr Ambedkar - the man who drafted the constitution- ignored? Why was Sardar Patel ignored?

    People crying hoarse about not talking to vested parties - who is the vested party? the Abdullah dynasty? The Mufti dynasty? The Hurriyat? The JeM? Pakistan? All thesep people who take money from Pakistan and bleed our nation through the proverbial 1000 cuts?

    We have been bleeding anyway. even after all the talk of consensus and inaction. doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is insanity. It takes guts to do something like this. Right or wrong, time will tell. BUt 70 years of this BS has already proven that Nehru was wrong.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  8. Agathinai

    Agathinai Silver IL'ite

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    I have been reading about these news for a while now. I had initially read about the 370 articles before and was why thinking about such an article, until I read a bit of history. BJP had this agenda to revoking them in their 2014 manifesto. However was cautious then but now since they have majority have gone ahead to implement.

    Though not a BJP supporter, I think this move by government was necessary. I would just wait patiently to see local people reaction. Revoking the article was in the best interests of the country. JK is strategically very important for our national security. India had strived very hard to provide security for our country amidst the hatred of the local people. It’s taken a long toll on us. Pulwama was the last straw.

    Ladak has always been quiet and the split was inevitable. It’s better for the progress of their local economy and revoking the articles now would help to increase the funding required for that. That’s a good move.

    The main problem will be in Kashmir but even with the article in place we never found any peace. So revoking it hopefully will bring more migrants and dilute the population a bit. It’s not going to be that fast. But will take time. Though it could be viewed as selfish act by the BJP government by the local people, what the government did was taking into our national interest. We have been spending a lot on JK without any end result.

    Maybe they are right or wrong; we will never know for now. Only time will tell. But I cross my fingers hoping for the best.
     
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  9. soulful

    soulful Platinum IL'ite

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    Dear Viswa Sir, I disagree with you on this. Finding out the popular opinion of people would have been fair and feasible some 70 years ago, when the instrument of accession was signed.

    Given that 1) parts of J&K are illegally occupied by Pak and China, 2) a huge number of original inhabitants, the Pandits, who certainly have a big enough say to sway the mandate are dispersed and living as refugees for the past two generations, 3) vested political parties will interfere in the process, not to mention, are hand in glove with Pakistan, whose opinion are we seeking? Will it be a fair mandate? and will Pak and China let go of their illegal occupation. Do you see that happening? I don't! For heaven's sake China has invested billions (or let's just say trapped Pakistan) on CPEc on land that is disputed!

    In my opinion, it is important to undo all the damage that Art 370 and 35A has caused and that's why the status had to be changed. Is it going to be a smooth transition? Not for a second am I going to be a fool to believe that. Neither do I believe PM Modi is such a fool! We have seen what status quo has got us. A BIG FAT ZERO
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  10. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    @soulful,

    I am in agreement with you on this. In fact, I feel giving that right to begin with itself is wrong setting a precedence.

    It will be a dream if China and Pakistan return the occupied Kashmir to India. It is never going to happen. If the intention of the present Government is to undo all the damage that Article 370 and 35 A has done, I expect them to a) manage law and order situation, b) resettle those who originally lived in Jammu and Kashmir and then c) take a mandate. We can't go back in time to take a mandate in 1947. The mandate can be taken in the land currently in possession of India including those who are ready and willing to resettle into Kashmir including Hindus and Muslims. However, they have no right to divide the state at its own will without finding the wishes of the people.

    There is no instant solution to this. Article 370 and 35 A can't be pulled overnight and expect everything to be normal. Harmony between the Hindus and Muslim has to be established before the Government convert any area into a Union Territory governed directly by the Government of India. Most states were divided in the past based on the demand from people. The way Government conducts itself now is not secular.

    There is a lot of history about Jammu & Kashmir since 1947 and here it is.

    UN mediation of the Kashmir dispute - Wikipedia

    Simla Agreement - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
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