Non-Vegeterians are Sinners??

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by ValuableTime, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. ValuableTime

    ValuableTime Senior IL'ite

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    Nandhu,
    Thanks for all your surveys & anatomy class about humans, animals and plants.

    Well, its your personal opinion on what you want to eat and what not. Similarly, its my opinion to go for meat. Whats wrong in that??

    - I am doing it.

    I will definitely do it when someone tries to hurt me or wants me to feel guilty about it.

    Its your choice/opinion, not necessarily to be accepted by every one in this world.

    Uuumphhh, That was a big post to read... :spin
     
  2. MrsV

    MrsV Bronze IL'ite

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    quote=Nandshyam;735268]hmmm, I have been following this thread for a while. But recent ValuableTime's post made me reply here.

    So hear it goes.

    Before I got any further, let me tell you. I am not a vegan - I have dairy products.

    Now,

    ASuitableGirl has given awesome replies with examples a layman could understand too :p, but seems you are not able to understand it.

    So here's my take on it.

    If you eat some fruits and bury their seeds into the ground, and ofcourse maintain it properly, plant grows. Can you bury your chicken leg or fishbone and get a new one? Animals once killed, its a done deal.

    I guess you must have had this anatomy class about humans, animals and plants in your high school. Here's a short recap just in cause you forgot :p

    All these, flesh-eating animals have short intestine and bowel, that enables them to rapidly remove flesh foods of their system before it becomes poisonous. On the other hand, humans have a long, complicated alimentary canal, which has a slow digestion and absorption process. There are intestinal bacterias in every meat eating being which helps in digestion and humans does NOT those. I wonder why :p :p


    The human intestinal system is about mid way between carnivores and herbivores, based on size and capacity. It does not prove humans be to a full fledged carnivore or a herbivore; more like an omnivore.

    Herbivores can also breakdown plant tissues which humans can’t - this called cellulose AKA fiber!! This goes right through us, and animals have to bring it back up and chew this over again.


    Have you seen the teeth and fangs of these wild animals? Why do we humans don't have it? Because we are not designed to penetrate, kill and rip the flesh. This is a feature for carnivores, not humans. From how the jaw is designed, what your saliva content is, what type of acids are generated during digestion, its a clear indication that flesh is not for human consumption.


    There is evidence to support that we were vegetarians before, big foot time period! Yes, hence the molars. Humans are not animals – we cook our meat and then it. So we don’t need to have fangs and teeth to rip into animals and kill our prey.


    I don't know who wrote about religious view on this topic. I totally disagree. Please don't bring in religious reasons for you either eating meat or not.

    Ramayana, Mahabharata, manusmrithi etc have lots of things in it. That's the beauty of Hinduism, it shows both the good and bad ways of leading a life. You CHOOSE.

    (1) Rama did lot many things, will you put your wife under distress too just because some guy spoke ill of her?
    (2) Is it OK to be a wife for more than one husband, as its told in Mahabharata?
    (3) Manus, mentions that a brahmin can have 4 wives, each from a caste? Is it acceptable now?

    So please. These epics are to tell us what to take and what to avoid to lead a harmonious life. Pick a rose out of the so many thorns out there.

    I wrote about the religious aspect of eating meat, and honestly why not? Religion is the key reason why many Indians don’t meat. ”I am Brahmin, so we don’t eat meat” is a common phrase.
    The Ramayana, Mahbharata and Manusmirthi are given to us as a guide, what we choose to with it, and how we use it, is our call.

    If you are implying that eating meat is a bad way of life, so is consuming milk! The cow produces milk for her calf, not for us to drink with our morning tea, or latte. A hen laying eggs that are sterile, so we can consume it without a hint of blood in it, is bad. It has to be the same logic right?



    Just because you have halal meat, do you think you are morally ok. Do you even know how they do this halal thing? Just because they dont kill it using blunt objects, smash it on some hard objects, or strangle it does not mean its OK. They slit the throat and take off all the blood. What type of death is that? Please go and read what happens when blood is sucked out of you..

    Now coming to health related.

    Everyone knows that some vegetable products have higher fat content but almost no cholesterol. Animal products, on the other hand are loaded with cholesterol. Now these meats not only give the nutrition, but also the toxins, the infections and also its waste from the animal. Why do you think so many diseases arise now... to name a few, Swine flu - pork, HIV - Monkey meat etc. Also do you know that animals that are slaughtered secretes hormones like epinephrine all severely toxic in nature. Not to mention the steroids it was on for fast growth. Plants do not secret anything so toxic.

    Are you kidding me??? Swine flu has nothing to do with the consumption of pork! It’s respitory illness, I could see a human kissing a pig and then getting sick, but not eating that pig and getting sick.

    Monkey meat and HIV?



    Seafood, do you know boric acid is sprayed to preserve them? Please dont compare this to insecticides LOL.. its no way close and you know that..

    Boric acid, is a weak acid. Not sure about anything else.


    I agree vegetarians are at a high risk of having B12 deficiency, iron deficieny. But it can be compensated with the right vegan meal.But now lets take the risk level of these meat eaters. More prone to heart diseases, diabetes, hypertension. Why is more fatal?

    One of the reason why we are prone to the above mentioned is because of our consumption of processed food which rips out nutrition.

    Now coming to production of all these:

    Everyone is becoming eco friendly. More green is food for Mother earth.

    But,
    Livestock production is responsible

    (1)for more climate change gasses than all the motor vehicles in the world.
    (2)for 18% of human induced greenhouse gas emissions.
    (3)major source of land and water degradation.
    (4)uses 30% of earth's entire land surface.
    (5)Very inefficient way to convert energy to food. For every 1 Kg of pork, 60 Kg of feed is required. Most of the energy is wasted in moving things around.
    (6)Meat-based diet requires 7 times as much land as a plant based diet.
    (7)Meat production requires 15-25 times more energy by weight than agricultural food production.
    (8)Food borne diseases originate mostly from meat products.

    Don't come to me with the argument, animals are there to be eaten by humans crap. In nature show me one specieis that imprisons other animals for their entire lives so that the can eat whenever they want too, except for humans.

    Also I hear argument that if animals are not killed there would be a disaster in this environment. Good point, may be it will die of natural causes like human. But lets not kill it for our own pleasure.

    You know what's the surviving rule in wild life is? To hunt to eat, it will even hunt you if it has the chance. But the point to be noted here is WILD ANIMALS do that, not humans. Worst human act is to kill animals, that too such poor tame ones to stuff yourself.

    Just say you love to eat meat and end it at that. Don't go about justifying it. I don’t need meat to be happy and healthy and that's my choice. Choose yours and stick to it. But being a member of ASPCA, I will show my disgust whenever I get a chance <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=_x0000_i1025 style="WIDTH: 11.25pt; HEIGHT: 11.25pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href="http://www.IndusLadies.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\anair\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\05\clip_image001.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape>

    I feel all the meat eaters have no compassion and attachment for animals. There is no natural law that says we need to eat animals to survive. A lion cannot eat spinach and live. A human can. And that's the choice one has to make in life because we are SUPPOSED to be the EVOLVED species on earth

    WHAT??? Nandhu are you serious???
    I have a cat, and he is my baby! Being a member of the ASPCA, you should try to rescue animals from puppy mills, from the circus, get them spayed and neutered. Truly biased and not called for.


    Please go thru WHO statistics. An average person is more likely to die from his/her lifestyle disease than from an accident or infectious disease such as pneumonia.[/quote]

    Yes very true, so we should start excercising!!!
     
  3. Nandshyam

    Nandshyam IL Hall of Fame

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    Well, if that was the case, I don't see a any reason for opening such a thread in the first place ;)
     
  4. seahorse

    seahorse New IL'ite

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    It's all in the mind! Being a vegetarian or a non-vegetarian is a matter of choice and opinions should not be forced on someone else. If anyone looks down upon another for consuming a food that he or she would not then it is unfair. Respect for each one's choice should prevail. I was brought up on a non-veg diet....but out of choice i prefer vegetarian...however i don't mind a non-veg item now and then. A true friend will not be judgemental but will respect your choice.
     
  5. seahorse

    seahorse New IL'ite

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    By the way....regarding the swine flu.....it was the pig that caught the flu from a human being.
     
  6. Tulip29

    Tulip29 New IL'ite

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    Well Said Mrs..V :thumbsup.Nandu what are you trying to say? All non –vegans are sinners and will die pretty soon :rotfl.Don’t try to change others choice by simply providing details from Google search .As humans we should just learn to respect others irrespective of their food habits.

    VT,yes I have seen many vegan friends making fussy faces when we eat non veg foods .I usually ignore them and enjoy my food. Even one of my Brahmin friend told me she was just standing near the lavatory in her whole flight journey (from India –US )just because the guy next to her was having some beef during the journey which is ridiculous :bonk
     
  7. ValuableTime

    ValuableTime Senior IL'ite

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    :thumbsup . At any point of time, this is the acceptable act of a person.

    I cannot argue with someone even after knowing that its not worth it. I know what I am doing and the purpose of the thread is not to hurt anyone / to get hurted. Why are ppl so rude in proving their opinions? After all, they are not the only one living here.
     
  8. MrsV

    MrsV Bronze IL'ite

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    That ASPCA just makes me come back to this post..

    I went to a school with sooo many Indians, and I used to be sick and tired for hearing this crap! Non vegetarians are sinners nonsense.. that's why I put religion in there.

    To make a generalized statement that non veg. don't love animals is just not right! And to throw in a reputable organization like ASPCA into this mix by saying that if you are member and you show your disgust - ASPCA is an animal rescue group.

    Just paying your dues and volunteering there does not make you a member. If you truly care about ASPCA, walk into their shelter and adopt a cat or a dog. Our is a stray that we rescued, that we love to bits and spoil and pamper. That is love, that is caring!

    Go to India where elephants are abused by their caretakers.. free them. They are bound and beat so they can perform at temples. Free oxen that plough the fields and get whipped all day.

    Nandhu, you are from NY, join the protesters to stop using horses in Central Park.

    Just because one eats meat does not make that person heartless, wrong way of thinking!
     
  9. Nandshyam

    Nandshyam IL Hall of Fame

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    Oh V it was you then.. fun debate starts ;-)

    Oh so, you are telling me that humans can eat meat. Good.

    Also check this video before you do it :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

    YouTube - Meet your Meat

    Nope, not true.. I have seen some of my Japanese/Chinese friends eat RAW MEAT !!!! too.. Also there are many places in NY for meat eaters to try something new. For those meat eater's pleasure ;)

    YouTube - Live Octopus Plate

    See you are not getting it. I am not against discussing religion, but in the right context, the way it was intended to be understood. Not for our own convience. You can always take religion, but its heavily loaded and one cannot simply conclude, "Oh he eats meat, so I can too". There are lot of meaning to each actions and situations in all these epics.

    All I am going to say is this..

    One of the swamiji's line I am quoting here.

    Man's control of external nature is civilization
    Man's control of internal nature is culture.

    Now in Hinduism, it is very important one values ahimsa, which is one aspect of sanatana dharma. Manusmirithi is said to be the guidelines for Hindu, it says Samanya - Meaning not to consume meat.

    There are many reasons why we follow that

    (1) Hinduism's standpoint is one Self or One life that pulsates all beings and everyone want to live happily, so its not morally right to take away a life and cause unhappiness or hurt of others. Simple dharma.
    (2) As per vedams, a human's greatness lies in one's sacrifice for others. They should be able to sacrifice their happiness, comfort, even life to protect others being. Therefore taking a life is a taboo.

    Now I agree that vedas might have given permission in some period of time. But as I said before, please don't underestimate these scriptures. Because that is the beauty of these. The injuction and concessions are to be clearly understood and not taken lightly.

    Ofcourse !!!

    I agree, humans are disgusting having milk from other species and that too after their baby time :rant till death..

    Dairy cows are injected with hormones, antibiotics and what not. Also their food has pesticides too, you know why to reduce the insects attracted to their poo.. Also, artificially insemination for the huge demand of milk, so that she can start producing milk.

    So, we got to change (atleast I got too.. its been 6 months I have had Milk).. but still am clinging to curd.. May be one day !!

    Let me finish of the easy one. Why don't you check out the origin of AIDS/HIV. There are lot of papers released. I will give you these clues (1) The first case was from West Africa. (2) It was some hunters (3) It's their custom during hunting to eat wild meat, what do you know. They love chimp meat :p :p Check it out.

    Now. Swine Flu. Ok, HIV-AIDS is a combination of many fatal disorders, but the source is what it matters yeah? I agree that it is not confirmed yet and yes it wont be TRANSMITTED by eating pork. But there is a reasearch that it can be MEAT as well (as usual !!!)

    I guess it depends on how much risk one can take :p :p :p when you don't know the exact source, but from history...., well !! ;)

    WHO: Meat From Pigs Infected With Swine Flu Should Not Be Eaten - Infectious Disease - FOXNews.com

    Well cruelty.... it depends.. I feel along with these... animals slaughtered for human consumption is a cruelty too :mrgreen:

    Amen to that !!!
     
  10. asuitablegirl

    asuitablegirl Gold IL'ite

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    Nandhu,

    Just because I eat meat doesn't mean I don't have attachment to animals! Like V, I have cats and they are like kids to us. If given a choice between a veg or nonveg meal, I usually always chose veg because it just tastes better to me! But sometimes I can't help it! I drive past McDonalds.... and the fillet o' fish is calling me....

    If we start classifying foods as good or bad, where do we stop? What's next, banning paneer? That would truely be the end of the world as we know it. I shudder to live a life without paneer makhani. :shaking:(<-- that's me scared and chewing my paneer before it's all gone)
     

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