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Need Your Guidance To Make This Final Decision

Discussion in 'Married Life' started by SGBV, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. SGBV

    SGBV IL Hall of Fame

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    @yellowmango

    I wish I could chop his credit cards, but practically it is a different case altogether.
    He had 3 credit cards some 6 years back, when we were not in good terms. He used them for whatever reasons, but he claims he used them for his India trip, and shopping for the kid's birth function, but I doubt he would have continued supported his family that time (after I had withdrawn my joint AC with him).
    The 3 credit card loans are huge, and above his present capacity to pay them back. You know, how they calculate interest for late payments and all, right.
    So, now that the loan has been mounted so high, that he could only pay the minimum balance to avoid complications.
    But this minimum payment itself (only the interest and a very little deduction from the loan) cost 30% of his present salary.
    Earlier, he used to say that he pays 80% of his salary on this credit card loans, hence share 20% with family (that too 15% would be only the bills like his personal expenses, presents for kids like that). But his credit card balance remained the same each year.
    I felt like he is showing this credit card as an excuse to escape from his responsibilities. So, why I have made him to commit with a car loan, as we badly needed that second car that time. Now that he pays 50% of his salary for the loan, and 20% for the credit card, and the remaining 30% for his personal needs/support to his parents, and as well to gift kids here and there.
    Can't rely on him for the family's needs. Forget about savings and future plans.

    Now, I need a way to handle this matter.
    I have repeatedly asked him to show his credit card balance, but he says only 1 card has on-line access, and others don't have.
    Somehow, he didn't show me his credit cards yet, despite of asking him so many times. All he says is reasons, that too tactful, believable reasons. But my instinct says that he supports his parents for their grocery and medical bills using his credit cards each month.
    He has no escape from this crocodiles, as they have mesmerized him so much, that he will even die to support them. Never-mind.
    I advised them to earn more. So that he can full-fill his FOO's and his immediate family's needs simultaneously.
    He is a PhD holder, with 15 years of experience. Why can't he secure a decent-well paying job to support both families?
    If not locally, why can't he take extreme steps like me to find international posts for a couple of years, at least to clear all his personal loans, so that he can continue with a flexible job after that.
    Given the fact that his role at the family front is very minimum, and his wife (me) can handle everything at home alone, why he is reluctant to even move away from home?

    The thing is, each time after a discussion with me on this, he agrees to apply for jobs. I even help him.
    But soon, his daddy devil comes with a horror scope only to say that he shouldn't take any steps in career right now, as the planets are unfavorable to him. Come on... How many years since we are waiting for his planets to turn right. It seems it never happens.

    I want your advice on how better I can tackle this issue?
     
  2. SGBV

    SGBV IL Hall of Fame

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    @MalStrom
    My H is not responsible, but he is not arrogant or unmanageable.
    Just that he is not supportive, but not a hindrance.
    He doesn't get along with my mom, primarily because my mom doesn't like him for his irresponsibility. But he respects her and adjusts with her.
    At home front, it is my mom who takes the lead role, knowing the fact that my H will not be taking up that role at my absence.
    They do communicate, but very limited communications.
    My in laws, the maids, servants etc do serve as a bridge between them often.
    When it comes to kid's matters, he is just like another kid and plays with them, spend times with them, takes them for outing and that all.
    Every other things would have to be done by mom with the help of a nanny and a maid. There is a cook coming separately too.
    If need arises, mom would direct H to get done the work. Like pick up the kid from school etc when the driver isn't available.

    Besides, there is a very strong support system I have. My bro lives just around the corner, and my mom's bro too lives closely.
    They both take active parts in helping us out. Like dropping kids in School, tuition, attending meetings on behalf of me etc.
     
  3. yellowmango

    yellowmango IL Hall of Fame

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    @SGBV .....we are all just our genes and our environment.

    Do you realize your husband is no different from his father who was irresponsible towards his family that he made. His father too neglected his family to support his family of birth.

    Your husband has his father's genes and he grew up watching his father behave irresponsibly .
    Half your children's genes come from their father and their family.
    Don't let your husband be the irresponsible environment that they learn from.
    You will have to seriously make an effort to shield your children from his irresponsible behavior.
    How...I don't know.

    Thankfully they have you to learn from .
    But in the long run you will also become the self sacrificing , burning herself at both ends role model . That is also not healthy .

    Go to the bank with him and get his credit card loan details.
    You need to force the issue.
    If nothing else,make him stop living of credit cards now. Chop them off. He can continue paying the loan. He does not need the cards for that .
    Tell him to get a debit card .
    Credit cards are not pay checks . How can one live off them? why go to India and spend on gifts if he did not earn enough?
    You need to seriously get after him and get some answers .
     
  4. nuss

    nuss Platinum IL'ite

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    @SGBV, I am with @yellowmango on this. In my understanding, you have to issues to deal with here.
    1) Figuring out how much you guys owe in debt and make a plan to get rid of this debt.
    2) Figure out what is most important for you in life (hint: it is not keeping up with Joneses) and how to achieve it.

    I would highly recommend sitting down with your husband and without getting in an argument and without blaming him for his past (and present) mistakes, ask his credit card debt. Credit card debt is the worst kind of debt. I am assuming it is upwards of $50k if most of his salary goes in making minimum payment. Once you know how much you owe, make a plan to pay the least amount off as soon as possible and keep working on these payments. Set a goal- something like within 2-5 years we will pay off all this debt. You might need to make some drastic lifestyle changes: no eating out, no vacations, no new clothes/ accessories for husband and you (except for kids since they grow out of clothes). If you need to let some domestic help go- do that. Make a budget and stick to it. If I were you, getting rid of this debt will be my priority and once it's paid no more credit cards EVER! If possible, re-finance your house if there is a chance for saving there, sell the car if you don't use it too often. Budget for kids education and set up direct deposits, same for the retirement plans. Pay towards all your expenses upfront and then whatever is left, pay more towards those credit cards.

    Correct me if I am wrong, you seem to worry too much about proving yourself to your relatives. Showing off a rich life style (Again I am just assuming from what I've read and might be completely wrong and I apologize in advance if this hurts your feelings). You do not have to prove yourself to anybody. You do not need to compare your lifestyle with your friends or family. All you have to compare is with yourself- where are you now, and where you want to see yourself in 5 years. Make changes and plans accordingly. Personally, I don't think a nice job away from home for a year or two will help much unless you make some lifestyle changes. That saved up money will go away in some other things- new furniture, new car etc. Your kids don't need a lot of money, they need a family together. Think about it. Don't take the overseas job just to save a little more money, if this is your dream job and you just cannot see yourself turning it down then that's a different story and by all means follow your heart. Don't rely on your mom. Plan your year or two away from home considering mom won't be there all the time. She might have to help out your sister or brother. Get your husband on board. Talk to him about his responsibilities and how is he going to run the house in your absence. Do a test run when you are still here. Let him run the house for a few months. If he is reluctant, you need to revisit your options of taking the overseas job.

    Another thing, not everybody gets financial support from family so don't feel bad about it and don't compare with the family who did receive a house/ bank balance etc. Everyone's situation is different. Everything in my house- from socks to the house itself is from our hard earned money, we didn't receive anything from our families either and we didn't make a whole lot of money until 5 years ago but have been careful spenders. The bottom line is your expenses should not be more than your income!
     
    NeetaR, nakshatra1, Laks09 and 5 others like this.
  5. KavithaUS

    KavithaUS Silver IL'ite

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    @SGBV - I am not dragging, may be I did not put my statements clearly. If it had hurted you, my apologizes.

    Again, having a financial goal is important. Maintaining "status" by slogging is not.

    Can't rep you enough @nuss
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
    Archanaanchan and Rihana like this.
  6. BhumiBabe

    BhumiBabe Platinum IL'ite

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    After reading your situation @SGBV, there is no way I can advise you to take this international position, without some necessary legwork. I think it's time to open up the books, and determine your family's financial situation, BEFORE you start earning a "cushion" for your savings account. There is no such thing as a savings account, if you are still stuck in debt.

    First thing, sit down with your husband, and bring out your pocketbooks and credit cards and investments, etc, and really determine what is going on for your family financially. There is no believable reason for your husband to shirk transparency about his credit cards. If he's part of the family, it is his duty, to lay out his income statement, his bank statement, and his debts. You are enabling your husband to keep that private, which in the long run, will affect your marriage. What's the worst he's going to do? I am wondering if YOU are avoiding transparency, because you have some savings that you don't trust him knowing.

    Together, analyze both of your accounts and determine your family debt and expenses. It's not just his debt, it is your debt, since you are a family (afterall, if he dies, you get his debt - not to be completely morbid). Work on figuring out how to clear it, together. And I mean, plan it to the number of paychecks, you will need to clear the debt. Many people have recommended to me that opening a family account, where both of husband and wife contribute the amount required to run the family (for the expenses, car payments, education savings account). The left over, is each other's "pin money" to be used for personal and filial duty.

    I will say this bluntly. The car is a financial burden that you (your husband) do not absolutely need, to keep your life running. Sure, he may enjoy it, but regardless of your plans on trying to get him to put money back into the family, you are preventing him from making a concerted effort to contribute to the family. Cut down luxuries. If it means using the bus or train, then do it. You have mentioned that you have family nearby to help you out. You can use them, as long as they are willing. But be warned, asking for too much help, can affect your relationship with them.

    It will be smart to start some type of bank savings plan/scheme for your children, for both of you to contribute to. I don't know how all of these work, but I have seen some plans in India that help families save for children's education or marriage - that you can only use after a set amount of time.

    After all the financial analysis, talk to your husband about what job your should take, and the options that it will open for the family. This is not just your decision, it is also his, however irresponsible he may be.

    Whatever your decision is, you must maintain some type of bimonthly or monthly conversation about the finances in the family - even if you are abroad.

    I understand that you accept that your husband is irresponsible and that you love him nonetheless. But I also think it's important that you keep him accountable for his actions and reconnect on your (1)financial goals, (2)family goals, and (3)personal goals. Maybe, it might spark something, and he may consider a higher paying job.
     
    SunPa likes this.
  7. SGBV

    SGBV IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Ladies,

    First of all, thanks for your time and suggestions.
    I fully agree with what you have suggested about how I should go about it. Particularly, I get your point about burning myself completely to give some light to the family - which is not a great thing either. And I definitely do not want my children to follow me in this way.

    @nuss
    I know the credit card debt is the worst of all. But as you suggested, I sat with my H a few years back to find out specific ways to settle them fully.
    I did not go back to the past or curse him for making such huge expenditure behind my back for his FOO, and coming back to me with all these huge baggage.
    So, we decided that my H was to take 3-4 years from that point onwards to use 100% of his salary to settle the loan.
    That means, I was to take 100% of our family responsibility (including my child birth, related ceremonies, first kid's school, EMI for the home and what not).
    During that time, I used to travel 3-4 hrs for work daily, that too carrying my second kid in my womb to make huge money to bear all these singlehandedly.
    But after those 3-4 years, I found out that my H hadn't paid anything, rather made few other debt and continued to spend for his FOO (including his second bro's wedding expenses and all).
    So, I decided to cut him some slacks, and made him commit with certain % of his salary for the family each month.
    But he knew that my salary is more than enough for the family's needs, and nothing will happen if he delays or refuse to share his shares. So, at the end of the day, all he gave were some reasons.
    Then only, I've decided to tie him up with this car thing. I somehow tactfully made him commit with this car loan, and the EMI is automatically deducted from his salary. He can't give reasons to his bank na?

    The car may be a luxury, but I felt I and my family need this luxury as a compensation for all my hard work and efforts.
    If I let him lose from this EMI, he would continue to spend those money to his FOO for their luxuries. What is the point?

    I can still sit down with him, share my savings to clear at least 1/2 of his credit card debts, so that he will be relieved from this burden to some extent.
    But why? why should I do that?
    After all, this is not our family debt?
    In fact, we had family debt like housing loan etc... And I used to pay them all singlehandedly without his support.
    If I do so, half of my hard earned savings will be lost. At the same time, he will freely take another credit card behind my back and let him father swipe as much as he wants for his luxury?
    Why do you all want me to slog like this for his FOO?

    All I expect him is to get a good job as per his qualifications & experience (he is Phd holder with 15 yrs of experience)> He can earn a great salary as me or even more.
    With that, he can clear his credit cards in no time. And after that, he can think ways to support us as well as his FOO as much as he wants?

    Now that he expects me to do everything, while he can lead a flexible life with family?
    Is in it unfair?

    PS: I can pay off his credit card loan within my savings, and it is not a huge issue. But what is the point?
    I don't wanna repeat this again and again, as I know my H will take another couple of credit cards to support his FOO once he is cleared from this one.
    PS: My H's younger bro has a HUGEEEEE credit card loan from UK (he lives there), and everything was done for his dad only.
     
  8. SGBV

    SGBV IL Hall of Fame

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    @BhumiBabe

    The internet says
    "Jointly owned property can be seized to pay off the debts even if one spouse has nothing to do with running up the debts. ... In general, unless the credit card debt stems from a jointly owned account, or the creditors are going after jointly owned property, you shouldn't be responsible for your spouse's credit card debt"

    I am not sure, but I have nothing in joint (properties or bank AC) with him now a days.
     

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  9. Laks09

    Laks09 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    @SGBV - Hugs dear. I know how stressful all this is. Hope it doesn’t take a toll on your health.
    S, you can take a horse to the water. You can’t make it drink. You have tried with love, with being stern and with keeping finances separate. He hasn’t come to his senses. What more can you do?

    I suggest you make your children’s financial future secure - with or without you. Make sure he isn’t your nominee anywhere. Make trust funds for the kids. Make an airtight will. All of your hard earned money is for your kids, make sure it stays that way. Make sure they are in charge of their trust funds when they attain adulthood. If I were you, I wouldn’t let him even be the trustee of the fund. I’d find another responsible adult for that.

    Reg the job situation, if DH won’t even take care of the basics for the kids and you aren’t around, who will be the parent? Grandmother isn’t a parent. I was under the impression that he was a responsible dad but looks like he isn’t. It’s formative years for them. Don’t discount the effect of a proper parent figure’s presence. Think about it before deciding. I know you are between a rock and a hard place. I wish you found this job locally.
     
  10. Socialbee

    Socialbee Silver IL'ite

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    @SGBV If I was in your position, I would not take up option 2 job.
    I would downsize my living standards, find a job locally and try to earn only such that I have enough to feed and take care of myself and my kids. Ofcourse a little bit of savings for me and my kid’s future.
    I would not pay anything towards my husband’s credit card loans. I will let the bank come after him and teach him a lesson.
    Life is short. Before you know, kids will grow up and leave you. If you want them to love and care you later, you have to make some sacrifices now.
     

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