1. U.S. Elementary Education : What Parents Need to Know
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Middle School Education In The Us

Discussion in 'General Discussions - USA & Canada' started by BhumiBabe, Apr 13, 2017.

  1. BhumiBabe

    BhumiBabe Platinum IL'ite

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    I agree. In the US, colleges really like see students actually taking language classes through HS. In fact, many of my friends who had their path set toward being a Doctor, took Spanish (so that they can be marketable in the US) or Latin (to help them with learning medical terminology). While testing out of a language happens, I don't think it is the right thing for the child. There is a lot of importance given in the MS and HS level (required coursework), but more importantly, it really makes college application stronger.

    Being exposed to a foreign language - other than one's own mother tongue and English, is quite a challenge. It's not easy to learn and requires a lot of dedication to be comfortable in it. While I don't remember enough Spanish to converse, I can always read the Spanish signs and understand what it's saying. If I end up with someone who only speaks Spanish, I am able to follow a little bit of what they are saying, and help them out.
     
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  2. jskls

    jskls IL Hall of Fame

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    NSF offers contests at local chapters across US. All Bees happen here. Spell /geo/math bees etc Exposure to these contests from elementary school helps one middle school. If not anything atleast looking at singapore math curriculum books until 5th grade level gives one a basic idea to use lot of time available at elementary level. At MS level in our chapters where contests are conducted they offer a workshop for parents - college readiness. This gives overall information to get into top 10 colleges only. We participated for one and only reason - money raised paying contest fees goes towards children's education in India
     
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  3. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

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    I agree. This is the strongest feature of American education in my view. No other system allows so much room for error or teenage meandering. It's a great pity that the political will to keep costs under control, especially in premier state universities, appears to be fading into oblivion. Education debt is nearly $1 trillion with federal loan debt at around $850 billion, last time I looked. That has the long-term consequence of making the system less forgiving.

    See:
    Paying the Price

    Sara Goldrick-Rab: NPR interview
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  4. silento

    silento Silver IL'ite

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    @Rihana, I have been hooked to this site since morning. I feel as if you are reading my befuddled mind, breaking down my questions and in turn answering them so effortlessly in a zen re-assuring way. Its an overwhelming feeling of gratitude and thank you all for that.
     
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  5. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: 'pushing':

    I have had good luck with students. I always push and they always rise up to meet the challenge. The question is how much to push and how to actually go about it.

    Doing it right is a time-consuming business, requiring a considerable investment of energy - something I don't always have. I only do it, occasionally, keeping in mind (a) my wasted years of boredom and (b) the few people who did invest their time and energy in me. This only works because I deal with students one-on-one, not in a classroom setting. It is a rare teacher who has the luxury of time and resources to invest in developing an understanding of an individual student - but that is exactly what is required. This is why parents, family and family environment are so important. No one else has the time or the energy or the insight to invest in the development of your child as you do. Ignoring tiresome helicopter parents, this is why I have such affection for the mothers obsessing about their children on these pages on IL and try to add a thought or two!:icon_pc:
     
  6. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

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    Here are some thoughts on how I try to teach/train/push young students ... hmmm I don't have the time to write an organized disquisition, so forgive the shrapnel!

    In my experience, there are some motivation killers that one needs to guard against very systematically. Good teachers manage this effortlessly, anxious (Indian?:lol:) parents not so much. Chief among these is frustration. Some kids can handle it and press on, but most are not even equipped to recognize it. It's a bit like a baby or a toddler whining and whinging, unable to realize that it is hunger or a lack of sleep that's actually bothering them. They'd rather cry than eat, rather fight to stay awake and complain than sleep. In challenging situations, many kids tend to adopt the 'holy smokes, I'm not good at this' viewpoint almost immediately upon contact with failure. Frustration is neither recognized nor acknowledged for what it really is - a necessary component of achievement.

    Most learning (or improvement in any task) happens at the edge of ability. So, on the one hand, a measure of frustration is necessary, while too much is not conducive to learning. Any student working with me gets two projects - one well within their ability and another at the edge of their capacity and just beyond. It is probing for and identifying these limits that's so time-consuming and cannot really be done in a classroom setting.

    The distinction between the tasks is sometimes made explicit, sometimes not. The former exists to (a) provide a map and landmarks of new territory and (b) to instill a feeling of success (I can do this!). That map is the take-home for time invested, no matter whether the student pursues that field or not. ("I worked in a computational complexity group as an undergrad, but then I realized that my heart is really in fashion design ..." - fine by me, as long as she can recall the outlines of what complexity is all about!).

    The latter exists to challenge and frustrate. The boundaries continuously shift, always just out of reach. The idea here is to push, but push gently in a way that success, after some bouts of frustration, brings a feeling of accomplishment and confidence. This feeling of conquest after effort is absolutely crucial. Too easy and it's dull, too difficult and it's frustrating - you're looking for the Goldilocks zone that pushes them up one level at a time. The two projects are complementary.

    Science is frustrating, research is frustrating and life is frustrating. Learning to handle it and developing a tolerance for frustration is a first step in accomplishing anything. This is something that attentive parents and teachers ought to instill in a child - even in middle school.

    More later.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  7. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

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    What I have said above is nothing new. It is no different from the routine 'drill' problems and the more difficult "starred'* problems in a good textbook. However, the trick lies in continuously matching student to task. This is very time and labor intensive. My hope is that adaptive learning/testing technology will become more widely available for individual (as opposed to institutional) use. Even then, a good parent, teacher or better yet, a parent-teacher combo can make a world of a difference, in both attitude and learning.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  8. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

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    Some thoughts on interaction - In general, I try to discourage the following:

    You are not allowed to say "I don't understand this" (to the extent possible). You are encouraged to step back as far as you need to and then say "I understand how A leads to B and then C, but then after that, when we come to E I am not sure what's going on. Is it this or that? Might there be a D in between?" This can get clumsy at times, but with a bit of Socratic effort, it works. The idea is to encourage self-evaluation and foster an ability to probe for oneself the limits of understanding. To see where that boundary between understanding and incomprehension lies. This is more difficult to do than you might imagine. A lack of understanding often induces a 'flight' rather than 'fight' response. Learning to talk it out increases staying power and decreases the desire to simply run away.

    In a more advanced setting, good examples of this are the questioner/expert-mod interactions on StackExchange and sometimes, even Quora. Middle school is not too early to start instilling the frame of mind.

    More later.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  9. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

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    Most of the posts in this thread (and the sister thread about HS) are about the mechanics of navigating middle school in the US. Ummmm ... I dashed off what I wrote above and now I wonder whether it's really relevant.o_O Too late now, I guess!:lol:

    Let's just say that I'm trying to suggest, in a very general way, the sorts of things you may be able to do to help your child get the most out of school. For me, the big picture goal is not necessarily admission to a super elite university. That's an achievement, it's useful and brings many tangible and intangible advantages. However, it's not the be all and end all.

    If we were to consider not the top 15, but the next 50 universities in the United States, then I would say that every single one of them offers far more than what any student is equipped to take advantage of. It is possible to get a first-rate education in any of them, with nothing lost in comparison to the top-15 (except perhaps glamor?), but many (most?) students don't really know how to explore and exploit everything that is available. In the absence of proper guidance, by the time a student figures out how organic chemistry is really put together, the semester is at an end. Advice from (equally confused!) peers is often the least useful.

    Mercifully the interwebs have mitigated this failing somewhat, but it's still good to arrive with some skills of navigation - which is what I'm groping toward. Think of it as sort of a pastiche of "things I learned rather late, that I wish someone had told me earlier"! Maybe that ought to be done somewhere else, on a different thread! :oops::rolleyes:

    I prefer not to take a purely instrumental view of education. The real question is how to help our children get the most out of life - in the long run.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  10. Srama

    Srama Finest Post Winner

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    This is here is a wonderful perspective and can/should be used educators. Very helpful especially to me personally . I do come across the flight response often - even at a very young age! Thank you!
     
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