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Discussion in 'Snippets of Life (Non-Fiction)' started by Balajee, Oct 10, 2018.

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  1. Mistt

    Mistt IL Hall of Fame

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    I don't understand what you do want to prove here:smash2: :thinking: but you must READ posts #8, #16 and #19 again again. Please do Me a favor of send all comments in this thread to so called writer Geetanjal Arora too.......
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  2. Urmila

    Urmila Silver IL'ite

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    On sexual harassment we men need to be clear: the problem is not women, it’s us | Jonathan Freedland

    My ending up or summing up never seems to end! Sigh!!

    Is just like Perry’s Logic!

    All of the Reasons Rick Perry Is Wrong About Fossil Fuels and Sexual Assault
     
  3. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Does she think tight slap would have worked inside the bus in New Delhi were five men gang raped a woman just because she went to a movie with her male friend?

    Sakhti does samharam. But with the current laws, can a woman escape if she murders the man? Can the law be amended that such murders are self-defense?

    Is it? Does she know how much courage a woman needs to talk about a celebrity even after 30 years? The people in power can do almost anything.

    No woman prefers voluntarily to seek a favor by letting a sexual harassment to happen. It is an insult to the entire womanhood especially from a woman.

    Balajee,

    #Me Too movement is here to stay and will continue from now on. The men who have taken advantage of the women under the patriarchal society needs to be shamed. Frankly, they need to be jailed just like what is happening in the US now. This is just a tip of the iceberg and there is a lot more to come. It happens within the family, with the extended family, with a neighbor, with a boss, with a friend and even with a stranger. The families have asked women to keep it quiet for a long time. It is better for them to come out and shame the men involved in public. If the men are innocent, let them file defamation against women. Money, Power and Position make some men do things that are evil.

    Women are working in large numbers that too as Journalists, Actresses, Media Personnel, Sportswomen, Corporate Executives, Engineers, Doctors, Nurses and so on. Everywhere they should be able to work without any fear of men harassing them and that freedom can come only from this #Me Too movement.

    Frankly, the laws must be amended to include sexual harassment just like fraud with no time limits.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
    sindmani, Laks09, joylokhi and 8 others like this.
  4. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Balajee,

    I forgot to mention one point. More than physical pain, mental agony that women go through is enormous. They relive the situation and what happened to them forever. They sometimes go through guilt (blame themselves) and other times evaluate what they could have done differently to avoid the situation. That is much more painful suffering than the physical abuse. It is easier for abuser to walk away forgetting the incident. It is hard for these women to trust any men. Even if they have given a tight slap and held their head high momentarily, such incidents are difficult for them to erase from their brain.

    When you get a chance, please see the testimony by Dr. Christine Blasey Ford, a eminent Professor who presented her case against Justice Kavanaugh after 36 years. You can feel the pain she had gone through for so many years even after being married and have two wonderful boys. She being a clinical Psychologist herself, explained what happens in the brain when such catastrophic events happen in life.
     
  5. shravs3

    shravs3 IL Hall of Fame

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    1B1AECFB-EEC7-4C90-AABC-54E1589F1081.jpeg
    Couldn’t agree more!
     
  6. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    And why are Ms Arora's words more credible and beautiful than those of the very passionate and articulate ladies on this thread? Who is she and when did we appoint her the Grand Poobah of all women on this planet? A random unknown 'writer' spouts an opinion that panders to some men's preexisting beliefs so her views get forwarded all over social media as beautiful and universal? There is a name for this -- confirmation bias. If you go looking for opinions that support you, you will find them. It takes all sorts to make the world. Ever heard of Women for Trump? But don't mistake the isolated opinion of one individual, with unknown antecedents and motivations, for the opinion of women-kind in general.

    Frankly I'm highly skeptical this Geetanjali person exists. You did not provide a link to the article in question. Google returned two results for my query 'Geetanjali Arora Writer #metoo'

    1. A twitter link to a comment - News about #metoo on Twitter
    2. This Facebook comment - Sohum ''The Journey Within''

    Both exact copy pastas of your post with no information about the author or link to the original article. Without a link to her article how am I to know she isn't some 140kg, woman-hating, never-had-a-girlfriend dweeb, who wrote this sitting on his mickey mouse bedsheet while Amma prepared his nightly glass of Horlicks?

    Could you link the actual article?
     
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  7. satchitananda

    satchitananda IL Hall of Fame

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    Balajee, I have just a few points to make. Most of the points have been discussed in great detail.

    Just look at how women are being mocked for just participating in a #metoo campaign, despite the strength of numbers. Do you really think that an individual would not have to think twice before reporting any kind of misdemeanour (to put it mildly) even today? What about 30 years ago in India? Especially when it concerned women from not so well-to-do backgrounds / conservative families where they were not supported when it came to lodging complaints? They did not have the courage to file complaints against rapes, do you think women would risk their credibility and standing in society to make false claims of such a nature?

    How are you so sure that these claims are not true? Just because 30 years have lapsed? Or because the 'accused' claim to be innocent?

    There was a time in India (certainly 30 years ago) where the onus of proof lay on rape victims. For the simple reason that there are often no witnesses, or the perpetrators are in positions of power (even if there are witnesses, they might not want to jeopardize their own professional standing by testifying against the boss), the difficulty of proving something like this and because of the impunity with which some men continued their dubious pursuits, the law was changed to protect women. Now just because women are coming out, you want the rule to go back to what it was? Do think of what this would unleash.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
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  8. SinghManisha

    SinghManisha Platinum IL'ite

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    ILites, please don’t waste your time justifying #metoo to some men and Geetanjali arora like women. Instead focus your energy supporting the cause and the victims . This is a small victory , so let’s celebrate and rejoice briefly . The celebration isn’t for the naming and shaming. The celebration is for the fact that now atleast a few men in India will think twice before they make a pass at a woman in person or send a indecent text/message.
    This movement has not reached the most vulnerable sections of society : women from lesser financial backgrounds with no access or opportunity to call out their harassers.
    When that happens it will be our true victory .
    #metoo is not about men bashing but protecting women !
     
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  9. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

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    Interpreted literally, this "resounding slap" thing is completely untenable. (a) The moment passes more quickly than one can imagine - even as one is wondering, shocked, "Whoa, did that really just happen?" the event recedes, the moment vanishes; (b) In saying this, we often envision an effete roadside Romeo as the slap-ee, some clueless teenager with nascent fuzz on his chin - swatting away the VP of Transgalactic Marketing may be a whole different thing; (c) It's assault. In the United States, the legal - and other - penalties for that can be very damaging even if you are in the right; (d) And so on and so on. I'd dismiss the slap scenario outright as "not recommended", no way. Slap somebody, get fired, and write to Balajee for next month's rent? Ummm, no.
    This is a genuine problem. No argument there. We seem to be at a cultural moment when women are screaming enough is enough. There may well be among them lying exploiters, opportunists, score-settlers, and extortionists who seek to turn it to their advantage. Or stupid people lacking common sense - perhaps even some deluded souls - who tend to get carried away, like this woman, here. However, in cases where something really happened, the anger, humiliation, rumination over the years, and the bubbling over into #MeToo are a result of changing times. Women are making gains, individually and as a group. The technology exists to expose pious hypocrites who exploit women in the workplace and then slither home to wife and daughter. I would not condone false accusations. No one would. But, as women find strength in numbers and speak up, it is up to us to make something good come out of it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
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  10. Laks09

    Laks09 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Do you know the meaning of the word consent? The label you used viz harmless flirting is sexual harassment if done without consent. The line that you asked for is called consent. If a man or woman isn’t ok with harmless flirting then the line is crossed.

    Here is a simple video on consent. Replace “sex” with “harmless flirtation” or “just touching” or “staring at breasts” or “making sexually explicit jokes” or “men being men” and you get your answer to consent.





    Don’t blame conservative women for their lack of knowledge of men and their harmless flirting ways when they go out to work. The onus is on the flirt to make sure he isn’t getting in trouble for harassment. The policies in corporate work places are very clear. There is zero tolerance and people lose their jobs on the spot. I know people working in legal who make these calls, they almost always ask the perpetrator to resign on the spot and leave with security waiting in the wings to escort them outside.

    Now, regarding statute of limitations. There are currently none for harassment neither is there any for slander. People who feel like they are now thirty years after the said incident and need not be responsible for the harassment are free to go to court and sue for slander. They have every legal right to do so.

    Please tell Geeta Aurora that the Delhi rape victim lost her life because she fought back. The man who inserted an iron rod inside her did it because she slapped him and he sought revenge.

    Also tell her that she’s welcome to her strength. I’m not strong and don’t make any claims to be so. I’m sure other women out there are all over the spectrum when it comes to response to abuse. She can continue slapping as she wishes but others will process their abuse the way they do and it isn’t wrong.

    And the perpetual fear for our boys and sons being falsely targeted. We teach our girls and daughters a lot about staying safe. What’s so wrong about teaching our boys and sons about consent and continued consent? Yes, there will be a small percentage of women who will try to falsely accuse someone and for that, they need to take some ownership of themselves just like girls and women have been doing for generations. What is wrong with teaching boys to keep their harmless flirting and hands to themselves? What is wrong with men being aware of such false allegations and managing their behaviors appropriately? In the aftermath of metoo if teen boys suddenly become more responsible for their actions and not put the onus on girls alone, I think that’s the right thing.
    We have to start teaching our sons about consent just like we teach our daughters about staying safe.

    I’m sorry but you disappoint me with this thread of yours. You have no idea how much. It’s very upsetting to see men whom we think deserve our respect use terms like “harmless flirting” in reference to metoo.
     
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