Gabfest: And Thereby Hangs A Tail

Really, are you sure about it? Shall I dredge up few 'obscure' likes. You are up against someone who is as tenacious and holding forth as you are in this standoff (rolling my sleeves). You can still step back before the countdown ends ...one...two ...three..four ..

Arrerey, flatter ko goli maro! Not everyone may have that time and diligence to write up back-referenced posts. Mind you, we are struggling English learners. A bunch of muddled and nonsensical writers unlike The Great Alam Panah, The Polymath of the Navagrahas.

 

@sokanasanah

What happened to that 'I don't believe a word of what you say' thousand hammer post? Funny, when I implied something similar to a friend, he responded with the same disbelief.

He: "You mean, you guys were solving puzzles in a ladies social forum having developed a format for it also and that feature ran season after season and you are saying you learnt so much in that stint and there was also a dude who guided you and also that dude used to clue up his puzzles inventively and you are saying all this happened in a ladies social forum. Are you joking? I don't believe a word of what you say."

I am so glad that people don't believe a word of what I say for it makes my life less complicated.

 

@Iravati,

That is a long story but I will say this as briefly as possible. I have no shame in sharing this as it could help someone else:

1) After finishing school, I joined Pre-University course in the college in 1969. Those days phones and emails didn't exist and hence everyone was communicating with the parents via snail mail. I saw many of my friends writing letters in English and hence I learned how to write letters in English to my dad. I used to spend more than reasonable time to get the letters right as the letters would form an impression with my dad.

2) I used to watch more English movies to learn the language and try to follow the conversation. Many times, I came out of the theaters with tears as I couldn't follow most crucial dialogues. When the whole theater roars with reactions, I used to keep my heads down holding it in my hands.

3) Then, I decided to switch to read English novels regularly those authors who used to be famous in 1970s. Many suggestions came from friends and family members who were convent educated. I read books written by Frederick Forsyth, Irving Wallace, Sidney Sheldon, Agatha Christie, Denise Robins, James Hadley Chase and many others. You can't even comprehend if I explain in words how hard it was for me to read the books and understand the content initially leave alone enjoy reading. Eventually, I got to a stage where I started reading books from the start to the end without keeping them down. Some interesting books I read include Bloodline by Sidney Sheldon, The day of the Jackal by Fredrick Forsyth, Seven Minutes by Irwing Wallace and many more. At this stage, a cousin of mine suggested to indulge in reading Ayn Rand's books such as Fountain Head and Atlas Shrugged and J.Krishnamurti.

4) At this stage I was blessed with working for two great bosses at work. One was a famous scientist (Padma Bhusan award winner) This was in 1988-1992 and still there were no emails. We used to write memos and written presentations to explain the projects to Secretaries in the Government being the Chief Financial Officer, I had to write many reports. This boss of mine besides being a great scientist, used to write well and I learned a lot from him to how to construct sentences and word smith the documents.

5) When I reached the software industry, the CEO I reported to got educated in Liverpool and migrated to the US. He used to write well and I closely observed his writing style and used to respond with carefully crafted memos. In 3 years, I was moved to the United States and I had to relearn English to suit the way English is spoken here. Luckily, the General Counsel used to wordsmith many of memos to begin with. Many Americans were not following when I spoke in the meetings. Hence I went to a accent reduction course to understand how the words were split by the Americans as opposed to Indians. This helped me to speak differently. When I first migrated to the US, if one of the African American football players were to give an interview, I had hard time following him.

6) After this my reading habits changed to management, spiritual and science fictions. I noticed many in these fields are great writers.

7) Now I work as full-time Investment Banker buying or selling companies for our clients. In the process, I need to read and write a lot every day for the past 15 years.

Let me end this long write up with two points. My business partner moved from Italy to the US at the age of 12 and he didn't know a word of English. He used to communicate by action to go to the rest room. From this position, he studied MBA in a famous University and worked for Fortune 50 company. He still tells me that he observes body language of people by habit so that he could easily understand their feelings even if they speak nicely.

Similarly, when someone writes or speaks well, I have a natural tendency to read/listen carefully and learn from them. It is already built into my system by practice. I have natural tendency to observe the content and language simultaneously and I don't have to focus on one or the other. Besides every time when someone made fun of my writing or speaking, it only increased my determination to learn more.

Viswa

 

This is not of shame but of pride, so, you sharing it here may or may not assist others but as I have vested interest in such transition, I am glad you did. From letters to movies to memos to novels to mails is an unstoppable ascension to acquire the command over a language. As I said, your English is smooth with no inelegant protrusions and that slant of steady progress with diminishing setbacks is praiseworthy. I would never have suspected that you acquired English through such dint and will. I always had regard for your articulation but today I have higher regard for the way you have earned that articulation.

You not only have the natural tendency but where it lacks you discipline yourself constantly to work towards your goals. I have seen that resolve in not just language but other aspects of your conduct too. Success stories and inspirational narratives are always uplifting. They are never remote or unengaging in any form. Thanks for writing it up.

 

Good story. A few years ago, I read a story in the Indian Newspaper The Hindu, that many local engineering college students suffer, because they have had their primary and secondary education in the local language meidum schools, and suddenly they come to study all subjects in English in a college. ..

S. P. Dhanavel, head, English department, Anna University says that the Tamil medium students who come from families that watch English news sometimes, or have access to a library card or even a good English teacher in school, tend to do better than many others. “Given that many here come from very modest backgrounds, they don't relish the concept of leisure that can be used to read. Their vocabulary is limited to their course, which limits their sentence-making abilities as well.”​

You had written letters home in English, but these children do not have that habit. They have a mobile phone, and they could write in their version of English, something that they couldn't use in an Exam.
Here is another excerpt:

It has only been a year since newspapers carried his photo, predicting he would soon fulfil his dream of becoming a software designer in a big company, but Prabhakar Rajan (name changed), a student of the College of Engineering Guindy, from Salem, who secured a State rank in class XII, is not keen on talking about those times now.

“I often don't even understand the question in an examination. I have memorised all these programs but I will forget them in a week,” says the computer engineering student. His notebook is filled with questions which have cross marks next to them — ‘write a program that creates a palindrome' or ‘create a graphic with a pendulum that strikes after an hour's interval and says, ‘Hello'.' He plans to ask friends for their meaning.

“I topped in English in my school. But here, there are no ‘paper patterns' or important questions. Teachers help you if you approach them, but I can't do that every day,” says the second-year student.​

I see a few -- I am guessing them to be "young" -- IL members writing serial fiction, in English, and doing it with confidence, without a care about what the usage prescriptions are for what could be "formal" English. These writers have the gumption to come out there and fling their stuff without fear. Bravehearts! A practice as good as your letters home to father.

What makes a Tamil/Telugu/Malay/Thai Medium primary and secondary school educated child, somehow squeak through college education, and then go out in the world, knock about for a couple of decades, and then get good at some western language? --- could be a thread on its own merit. In my opinion, the people who go out there and use it with courage, get better at it, in small steps. It is happening to our fiction writers on the forum.

Courage:

 

There is a difference between composing artistic fiction and writing corporate emails. The audiences are different. The purpose and assertion are different. I could impute all my infelicities in literary writing to inventive devices with non-standard contractions and omissions and verbing and nouning of words. All such infractions are deemed playful when writing fiction for an unscrutinizing audience. But if you were to write up an email for niche audience like CEOs, COOs and other executive titles you cannot tar your way with poor grammar and vocabulary. You need that "gumption" and "braveheart" to take off and begin somewhere but a more self-appraised and incremental learning is necessary to transform that spirited venture into superior writing. I think many take off well but don't persist enough to cross over. Personally I found Viswa's tale uplifting because he pushed himself further by not being content with candied style wrought in an uncritical environment.

 

Slipped my mind earlier. I liked this books list, with J.Krishnamurti as the most convoluted thing you eventually got to.
I have advised younger people to read all the Harry Potter books. And for children being raised in forin, I have bought them a few HRF Keating books, with Inspector Ghote of Bombay CID as the main character. This is good for imagining what the distant ancestral country is like. And the story is in easy language, and moves rather well.
IMO, it is a lot easier to foist book-reading on teenage girls, than on boys.

 

Whoa, I thought I was the only one who still remembered HRFK!!!
But teenage girls want to be reading about swashbuckling Count(s) Von Somethings-dorf, no? Not Ghote, surely?
I think they just read the last couple of pages and write effusive notes to Auntie Nonya marveling at Ghote's perspicacity and thanking her for her literary choices!

 

Keating books can be found in many of the old book stores in Singapore, KL and Penang. These days we grownups can buy them on amazon.
Are you thinking of von Wittenberg, Hamlet's college roommate. And the book about their adventures on campus ? It is given that girls would read such books, in which teens would get seduced by men some 20 years older, and would apparently like it. Not have any problems like what their school nurse told them. They would go on to live in big castles and have servants. If the moral of those stories get through to the girls --- that it is good to get a hunk, albeit a little older, so long as he (...they) had money for a comfortable life-- those books would have done a good thing. This learning would serve her well in life.

 

I thought I was her only fangirl. Ansuya was eminently awesome! Ok, I toss that word too much but she is mighty A-W-E-S-O-M-E. This forum would do a lot of good if we were to bring her back. I have tried in the past but she is reluctant to return. What would I not do to bring her back? I tried everything. I hold her writing in high regard. I am sure she inspired a lot of us here. It was not just her writing but her thoughts and values were equally admirable. Perhaps she was never meant to happen in this site and it was sheer luck that we had a passing streak of her stint. EM is as dead as a dodo without her. She was someone who bonded well and was very passionate.

Even I rue her absence. Guess, there's not much we can do. I have tried several times to bring her back. I didn't want to be pushy beyond a point as it was my self-interest to have around than her desire. We should never have let her go. I regret not stopping her enough or not standing up enough for her. I regret it. I should have been more assertive and brave. I don't know.