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Gabfest: And Thereby Hangs A Tail

Discussion in 'Education & Personal Growth' started by Cimorene, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. Afresh

    Afresh Gold IL'ite

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    But, what else has been the product without 'Greed' ?? :thinking:
    Electricity, Fire, internet........?? These could also be belonging to the 'evolution' category but eventually, the further we leap , the further we go away from nature :rolleye::rolleye:......:thinking::thinking:?
    Yeah i know I am making the debate more abstract than what you had originally envisaged ....sorry:flushed::grin:
     
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  2. Srama

    Srama Finest Post Winner

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    Ladies @kaniths and @Afresh,

    Will come back later, duty calling. And @Afresh Sapiens has me thinking a lot and I think I will listen to it again - with the running around I do in my car, listening is easier than reading!
     
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  3. kaniths

    kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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    Hm, maybe the greed started way lonnng back when we first thought "to save for the future"...!

    Over the years we produced and consumed more and more, and at some point in our growth, we put ourselves on top of the pyramid instead of being co-associates with other natural elements. Since then no turning back. :smirk:

    pyr.jpg

    The pyramid structure though works if species were to be organized by their biodiversity numbers. Another thought pops in my head now, why is the diversity more varied at the bottom, at micro levels and reducing as we move towards the top? :thinking:

    On that note... An earthworm can grow up fully from any parts of itself, with memories intact too. A decentralized design like that but at simple base system levels. As the complexity grows moving upwards, say human beings, each organ has its own operations. Complex individual mechanisms but compartmentalized design, to achieve the greater functionality of human being as a whole. That is, in fact, a linear approach by nature too after all! :touched:

    Maybe we are just stuck at the basic level emulations, given our biological limitations (pointed out earlier in the discussion). Also why maybe we have no irregular patterns or messy interactions as nature's designs. Figurezzz! :sleep:

    :smash2: :buenrollo:

    Lol. I should only thank you for responding to my silly thoughts and super blahs! :facepalm: Guess have to read more on the same to understand better. :icon_pc:
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  4. kaniths

    kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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    Noble thought, cheers. :beer-toast1:
     
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  5. kaniths

    kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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    I used to comment on everyone's status messages, have so much fun there but whatever happened to that (part of me)! #Growingup! :flushed:

    #GOD club... Joining you there I guess! :tonguewink:
     
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  6. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Enjoyed the back and forth between you, @Afresh and @Srama. The discussion has moved on but I'll share some thoughts on the initial question. Yes, human design thinking has followed a linear, top-down model for most of its history but it's been evolving. It's not uncommon to find biomimetic (mimicking nature) design strategies especially in software design, machine learning, robotics, aerospace and urban design. There is a class of algorithms called Evolutionary Algorithms that perform crossover of design features and iterate to find an optimal generation of designs just like natural evolution.

    Nature seemingly allows chaos because design occurs from the bottom up. If you look closely there is mathematical precision to that chaos. All organisms share the same few building blocks and follow the same key design principles -- fit function to form, use available resources, achieve equilibrium with the environment and above all, survive and reproduce. This simplicity allows mind-boggling diversity. Natural evolution is an iterative approach and every rung of the ladder evolves individually while remaining in sync with the greater ecosystem via a network of feedback loops. These range from tiny intracellular feedback loops to planet-scaled oceanic currents and climatic feedback loops. A cellular automaton is a mathematical model that is a good example of how simple building blocks guided by a small set of simple rules can form complex patterns. Try this simulator: John Conway's Game of Life Not to mention that nature has scale and time on its side. The earth has had 4 billion years to perfect these systems.

    Firstly, we don't have the materials or technology to create self-replicating systems. We are simply not there yet. Seondly, human projects suffer from limitations of time and money. We do not have the luxury of iterating infinitely. Also many man made systems, especially large scale systems cannot be designed using a bottom up approach. Some projects necessitate a top down approach, or more precisely a V design model -- drilling down the need into the requirements and clustering those together into the most organic subsystems, then starting with components, building the subsystems and putting it all together into the final artifact. While there is room here for evolutionary design it is better suited to lower level subsystems where the functions and constraints are clearly defined.

    Natural design is superior no doubt. It is efficient and sustainable, and we have a lot to learn from it. But it is also blind. Evolution does not favor any species or life form. If you can't adapt you perish. If a natural cycle is disrupted it oscillates until it finds equilibrium. Who or what perishes in the process is not nature's concern. We will start seeing these effects with our own eyes in a couple of decades as the earth adapts to rising temperatures. Imagine if we started designing systems to be efficient at the cost of human lives? Human design thinking is limited and myopic for sure, but most of the systems we have built are the best solutions we could have come up with given the knowledge and technology we possessed at the time. We are an ingenious species. We'll get there.
     
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  7. kaniths

    kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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    I'm humbled by the thoughts you have shared, will get back to you after some homework! Thank you. :blush:
    But still on, so can I request Modji to move the posts to #_musings for further discussions without burdening gabfest anymore? :relaxed:

    FYI @Afresh @Srama
     
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  8. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan IL Hall of Fame

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    :hello:sister thank you and glad that you are one among the few who welcomes comment on quotes. In the past some one fed up with comments stating that quotes ment for just read and remain in it though some I found inappropriate and in certain circumstances hilarious.
    Glad that you could tolerate and or relish.
    Regards.
    God comes alive in certain short and beautiful quotes.
     
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  9. Afresh

    Afresh Gold IL'ite

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    Ditto @kaniths !! I share the same feelings
    Thanks for the response @Gauri03
    Intuitively, i realise that those are the same thoughts i had broadly, but to the level of specified models mentioned here, i surely need to start doing some HW, but as of now beyond that scope!! :)
     
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  10. Sweety2016

    Sweety2016 Gold IL'ite

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    Vow this thread is so intriguing!! I am amazed by the depth of knowledge you girls posses and the way you capture and lucidly render your thoughts..I get a feeling that you are all a group of highly talented mathematicians, biologists, physicist and computer scientists working on some interesting problems of the globe..
     
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