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Financially Screwed....i Am Sure.

Discussion in 'Married Life' started by WannabValerie, Oct 20, 2019.

  1. Rihana

    Rihana IL Hall of Fame

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    So, 4 flats/properties paid for and mortgage free are in his father's name, and the two bought after the showdown are in your husband's name? And, you guys live in a house that is in his name only? That's 7 properties in all in India and the U.K.? Bought over the last 15 years?

    Even if the India flats are small or in a 2 or 3-tier city, that is quite some buying of real-estate. Would it be fairly accurate to say that your husband earns well and/or invests well, manages money well other than not realizing the risk of putting the India flats in his father's name?

    When a spouse with siblings does not want to see the harm in registering more than one property in the name of parents, it can be extremely frustrating and draining. It is/was the norm that parents spent all on the children, and children took pride and felt indescribable joy in buying a flat or house for the parents. But, not multiple properties. Your angst is totally understandable. But one thing that stands out in almost each post by you is about the trust that was broken. You have lived with this for 5 years, and have many more years to go before both kids are 18. You have made some peace with it or reached a state of some resignation, but this cannot be sustained for long. So, try to think of the broken trust and your children's "dire" financial future from another angle.

    Trust is broken when someone breaks a promise they explicitly make, randomly violates an agreement reached or breaks an implicit promise such as a marriage vow. Your husband put the properties in his father's name because it did not occur to him to do otherwise. He did not willfully hide this fact from you. It was an unfortunate set of circumstances that there was no transparency regarding even such big finances between you and him. You assumed (and rightly so) that the property would be in his name. If he knew about your assumption and did not correct it, then, yes he broke your trust. But that was not the case. In your words:

    "When I asked how could he do that without asking me once!, he put an expression that I will never forget; he seemed not to understand what was wrong!!!. That what else would a male offspring do!... like what would be any other option"

    There was a monumental disconnect between you both, not a break of trust.

    This is exaggeration. Your children have a loving father, you guys are well-to-do, and all the properties going to your SIL is the worst case, not a given already. Pardon me but saying that your nephew has your husband to rely on and your children have only you is not nice. If you keep thinking like this due to imagining the worst happening in the distant future, it will show up in your interactions with your children, and you are killing the present joy for a possible future mini-loss.

    >> He eventually put the house we live in on his name ( only), because I said I did not want the mortgage burden.
    I didn't get this. Isn't it better to have the house in both's names? Isn't that the default when a married couple buy a house? It is in the U.S. And why should he bear the mortgage burden alone?

    Couple more things, feel free to ignore these or all of this post:
    Even when parents are still healthy, taking care of them and being there for them takes effort and time (even if they bring milk for her from far away). If indeed, she and her husband will be the one to supervise their care down the line which your husband will fund from afar, 3-4 flats is a small price to pay. If you see up close what work, running around, chasing doctors, decision making is involved when an old parent is hospitalized for even two weeks in India (even in the poshest hospital), you might decide a couple of mortgage free flats are dispensable.

    Wrong on multiple counts. Do not interfere in such matters when newly married. Do not force an adult to get a whole body checkup unless they are unable to think for themselves any more.

    So, blame your husband for not asking questions. Don't speculate on her suffering. It is not your business. For all you know, it could be a disease not diagnosed yet. Or she could be pretending. Either way, stay out of it as much as possible.

    >> He took me home and asked forgiveness because they lied to me ( arranged marriage) said that he took away my right of choice.
    When I asked my in laws they blatantly refused that they ever hid anything until husband backed me by 'reminding' them of that 3 hr discussion they had and decided to lie.

    Your husband's apology or "backing" you up does not in any way lessen what he did. That counts as breaking trust. Your gripe should remain mainly with him. He was an adult who lied directly or by omission.

    Don't write off your marriage or stay in it with half a heart. You guys have many more years to make money. As suggested in many posts, initiate talk or take small actions that bring about more financial transparency in your marriage. Think of the past as a major difference in opinions and lack of communication, not disloyalty or breaking of trust. Learn from it, move on. You can both save for your children without harping about the 4 flats. You can make money by yourself or your children can make it for themselves, you cannot buy a willingly involved and caring father for all the money in the world.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  2. WannabValerie

    WannabValerie Bronze IL'ite

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    Oh thanks for this :). This post has put me to ease in a way. I agree to all of it , yet few things just to clear.

    We ran a side business together for 5 years ( added to our jobs) so it made money ergo we had extra income which made these flats possible. The last ones are recent and just started mortgage. The business is no longer running anymore.

    On my sil, yes it might have been wrong on my side to take her to full body check up. I was just trying to help then . Since then, I leave her alone. Like you said, aint my issue.
    On her taking care of pils issue, I am yet to see them do it. My FIL is a very enthusiastic ol man and loves to do errands .I love him watch like that and hope he stays so as I have never seen him sulk, and it apparently doesnt suit him :)( his words).

    On my nephew, I sometimes instantly take a royal trip to the rock bottom of the rabbit hole with a keyboard and then write these notes ... ugh!. Albeit there is some truth to it, it gets multiplied by pain :0

    About my H, exactly what you said; what he does for children is what I cant do. His love language is quality time and he shows it. I am thankful to him in this aspect.

    Lastly, yes again. I shall move on. There are times in these years that I did move on and then I come to halt again. Then start to drag again and then stop again... I usually conciously stop thinking negative on any of them as it ruins my energy . Yet I aint immune :buenrollo:.
    I hope it gets easier.
    This time I found this site so?:)....Thank you once again Rihanna.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  3. Amulet

    Amulet Platinum IL'ite

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    Many countries in the world do not have the Joint-tax filing for married couples option like the USA. Separate incomes get taxed separately (e.g., Canada, UK or India) -- no joint filing of tax returns. What might seem odd taxation rules to Americans have been normal in other countries. Other countries offer no specific marriage-advantages in taxation, and no penalties either. Deductible allowances (to some limit) may be transferred from one spouse to another in some countries -- including UK. Having the primary residential mortage on one name only may be a side effect from the local taxation rules.

    I have often noticed that girls in the very low and the very high levels of wealth (and income) tend to let other money managers (pro's or male heads of families) deal with the grubby decisions on money and all things financial. It is the middle and the median who had crawled up there by the dint of their carefulness and savvy that keep on haranguing about money management. Some of this mental block, and tuning out of talk about money/investments/budgeting/planning all happens to western children :frown::facepalm: raised by desi parents who belong in the top 5% of wealthy households in America.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  4. WannabValerie

    WannabValerie Bronze IL'ite

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    Amulet, point made. That is how taxation works here. I just did not want to have any debt burden with assets been taken away.

    Many parents help with investments.. they find a good place to invest and put it on KIDS names. Its normal. Looking for good investments and putting kids money on THEIR name and then announce that it aint coming back... there isnt a word that I can come up with :shocked:. Like the law looks for the major share holder's vote, they just took the consent from the major contributor.

    Some one rightly reminds me here... past is past.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  5. Amulet

    Amulet Platinum IL'ite

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    This is like the sentiment "Neither capital gains, nor taxation be", which neglects that the person who makes a profit gets to keep some of it.

    When someone else makes the mortgage payments, while you own 50% of the asset (like we do with our husbands/houses in USA), there has to be an advantage for the woman somewhere, no?

    The value of the house minus the outstanding loan on the house is called "the ownership equity" -- this would increase when the value of the property increases. When the mortgagee cannot make any more payments, the lender (usually a bank) would take back the house, sell it, take what is owed to them, and send the remaining amount (the equity) to the mortgagee. When you own 50% of that, you will get 50% of that. When there is not enough equity, the Bank (lender) will lose money on the loan. Nothing happens to any other money that the mortgagee(s) have in the bank or buried in the garden. This is how a loan with a specific collateral (house, car, boat, airplane) works. Bank assumes the risk of loss.

    I am sure UK's community property law protects women who had voluntarily given up their rights to property ownership. But then, divorce attorneys can indeed manage to ascribe all of the equity to the mortgage paying spouse if there'd been any documented evidence to support that.

    Anyhow... Thomas Tusser (an old Brit, and a poet) has this in the wikipedia entry:
    A foole and his monie be soone at debate*,
    which after with sorrow repents him too late.
    *debate - This is the English of Chaucer.... not a reference to the debate we are having in this thread.
    Latter day Americans foisted the quote "A fool and his money are soon parted" on Ben Franklin. Women never had any control over money in them days, even though they be always cleverer.

    The word is Trust -- more precisely, when "it aint coming back", it is an irrevocable trust. Not a brilliant idea.

    College is much cheaper in the UK (and Europe, an option that'd go away after Brexit is achieved), and perhaps you'd already know that from your own experience.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  6. Roar

    Roar Gold IL'ite

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    Valerie,

    Your H had paid an extraordinary price for has lack of independent take. I suspect he is realising it. I know it pains to you as for now you seem to have nothing, its a dreadful feeling. But I think you will feel much better in 5 yrs time and it only gets better after than with kids growing and they keep getting stronger to take care of themselves.

    Until then, more hugs, accept and find some peace in something :).

    One example:

    In my visit to India we had Rakhi festival and we celebrated it with inlaws. When my daughter tied rakhi to my son my mil went ' Now promise her that you will always take care, until forever, even when you are 90, even when she is 85... you will never ever leave her on her own and never disappoint her..what ever happens, your priority is...'

    she was about to go on when I saw my sons face getting more and more confused. I interrupted her with ' Thats good advice'..Although my son knew it was a positive advice he later said it was patronising.

    I mended the rough corners saying 'she meant taking care of each other when you need, etc' and my little one went further ahead with a '.... and help the whole world and nature and everything also!'( she is only 4)...Basically my son did not understand why he SHOULD keep taking care of his sister when she is hunky dory and all grown up and is thriving. For him, may be the tone sounded more of impose other than out of love.

    He is a 12 yr old, and he found it patronising because it was his first time hearing it. Your DH has probably been hearing these things since 3... every single year. It takes time. Give him a fair chance :). I know you are :).
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  7. WannabValerie

    WannabValerie Bronze IL'ite

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    Amulet :).
    Brexit:. Taking forever!!..perhaps its successful in a parallel universe?
     
  8. WannabValerie

    WannabValerie Bronze IL'ite

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    Roar,
    Stop reading my mind!

    I too think the situation I am in is blowing my mind outta proportion. Little children, H with a troubled condition and money taken away..

    But like you said I hope I will be in a safer place ( as I have started working on it).. in 5-15 yrs time. I would even might have accepted the idea of our first 4 properties given away.

    And you daughter is the most spiritual in the way she says :) ... what a star:angel:..mine does that too!and so were we all better when small.. whatever happened to the abundant secure love we had... how ever the insecurities took over.. go figure.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  9. Amica

    Amica IL Hall of Fame

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    Hi Manisha! :)

    Nowhere did I say OP's in-laws' actions are justified. I offered an explanation as to why they may be doing what they're doing. Figuring out the enemy's motivation helps plan an effective response.

    Valerie doesn't need defending here. I'm not attacking her.

    I'm curious about what read as an attack to you. Please share. It will help me word my posts better in the future.
    .
     
  10. Amica

    Amica IL Hall of Fame

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    This is his parents' perspective. As far as in-laws are concerned, even if their DiL makes 10 times as much as their son, all the $$ belongs to the son.

    Plus the DiL is criticized for any shortcomings on the home front. DiLs are expected to bring home a fat paycheck, maintain an impeccable home, provide fresh hot meals several times a day, bear and rear kids, and shut up and do as they're told.

    Women have to pay attention to family finances ā€” where the money goes, whose name property is in ā€” or they lose ownership. Now that OP has wised up, she's better equipped to retain control of her earnings.
    .
     
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