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Financial assistance - Double standard.

Discussion in 'Married Life' started by SGBV, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. SGBV

    SGBV IL Hall of Fame

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    I second on the thought that every one speaks from their background and experience. But it gives you better understanding once you come out of your comfort zone to explore the world. The world is not just you and me, but someone else too.

    My parents had a very decent life, that I never seen them demanding anyone for help. Moreover, I have good aunts and uncles from both ends. They are equally good, and never interfering. However, I have experience of learning from my peers in School, colleagues in office and also from my husband's side relatives that there are many types of people, many types of expectation and what I experienced so far is just nothing.

    May be that is how, I tend to behave balanced now a days.

    I remember discussing about adult children with my Bosnian colleague cum friend sometimes back. She stated that she left her nest when she was in College, that time she fled to UK and worked as a house attendant to care for an old woman to earn something to meet her studies. She also found her accommodation and other stuff on her own. Parents supporting adult children is very uncommon in her nation.

    As a return, she is not morally compelled to look after her parents at their old age. She has her respect for them, but never changed her life/routines for them. They seem to know this, yet plan for their retirement.

    Our case is totally different. I even know of an adult man of 28 yrs of age, living under his father's umbrella. His father fed him, educated him, and found a girl for him to marry. His father borne his marriage expenses, and now gave him a space to live at his home (with his new wife).

    Now after several years, can this man leave his dad just like that? Can this man relate himself with the Bosnian lady?

    There is no universal answer as to what is right or wrong when it comes to culture or familial matters. As adults, we must learn to adjust and live as per our circumstance.
     
  2. SGBV

    SGBV IL Hall of Fame

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    This mentality is something I find it hard to understand. If the financial request is because of their need (be it basic or luxury) or because of their insecurity (about their future) or to assist underprivileged kids (the not-s-good earning one) it is within my understanding. Though I don't accept them or encourage them anymore, I still understand them.

    But how come a mother wants to make sure her son does not have anything for himself? This statement is more or less indicates the sickness of that mother. Because any mother wants to see her child in a better way and not like this.

    In my case, my MIL had severe insecurity about her son's affection and obeying nature after our marriage. She always wanted to marry him with someone of her choice, within her extended family background. She wanted her future DIL to be not-so-educated, but a fullest dependent on her son. So that she would obey him.
    When her son made a different choice, she developed this insecurity before understanding me completely.

    She would ask him money for her needs, for her other son's education, foreign trips (for studies and work) and to secure them a future. She hurried it because she felt as if she was losing her son to me. So, the demand was so high which we could not withstand then.

    I could not imagine this woman (though those days I was totally confused about it) to want her son to have nothing on his own. Because she never treat him as her enemy, though she did not like me then.
     
  3. yellowmango

    yellowmango IL Hall of Fame

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    Nice Post.SGBV.
    I like the way the equality in the up bringing of you and your brother...also the equal expectations and contributions.I also like how you siblings help each other without gender roles coming into play.

    The comparison of pre marriage ...was done just to show the difference in expectations from the boy and girls in general India.....hence the perceived double standards in advice given.Also ...unlike your case....there was no need for any financial help as both father and son were working...the father in a much higher position while the son just begining .

    The point being made was....the advice given when there is genuine reasons vs when the demands are unreasonable based on entitlement....are different...hence there is no hypocrisy .

    The advice given on this forum is generally based on this difference.When the requirement is reasonable...we rarely see posters advising against it.When the demands seem unfair and unreasonable based on a sense of entitlement or discrimination...then the usual advise of "tying up the money" is given.

    I did the same.I have a home in a metro ....and inlaws use it often as most relatives are in that metro now. They will use that house much more than us because it is close to good medical facilities...unlike my inlaws place. They have a second home to stay in...and we have some financial security too. This is what my advise to most people here is.

    Secure your future too...because you can only help yourself and others if you are secure.If I had not done this.....the money would just have passed on to the irresponsible son .....to be spent on their high class lifestyle.(mostly cars that have to be changed every second year because that is what is done in the circles they move around in.)

    They at least have one son and a bad dil.....they can fall back on.
     
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  4. yellowmango

    yellowmango IL Hall of Fame

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    In our case...it was the need to control the future plans .She wanted both brothers to settle down in their home later in life.She had said it many times.Any investment made by the sons were considered selfish and 'breaking away '.We were told to live a good life and not worry about house as they had taken care of it.

    This coming from someone who had a 'nuclear family' all her life (still does) who only visited her in laws twice in life.The two sons settling down in separate homes was 'blasphemy' for someone who chose not to settle down with her bil.Now that is what I call hypocrisy.

    I always wonder about the need to force children who have lived 30-40 years are independent families ...to live together and not have any problems .The expectations that people who have had independent homes all their lives will happily settle down in the alloted bedroom.(too many joint family TV serials I thinkshakehead)

    No such problems with me.I was chosen by her only after rejecting a whole lot of other girls.She was known as the mother who was never satisfied by any girl.(her own mother told me so ...jokingly)

    Just for information....I am pretty popular in the rest of in laws as the responsible bahu.(dil)
     
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  5. HasteRaho

    HasteRaho Platinum IL'ite

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    Interesting thread, SGBV...I've certainly seen women who have what you described as double standards when it comes to extending their household earnings (whether it's DH alone, joint income or their own income) to people who are outside of the sphere of their own parents/siblings...a few that won't contribute towards their own household savings and keep all their earnings completely separate. I personally haven't witnessed as many women who are as willing to take of their PILs and associated extended families the with quite the same sincerity or enthusiasm as they would their own, even if they are in need.

    One such was my own friend who made a decent earning and with the support of her DH (Dh earned well and was from a well off family), she kept her own earnings aside to build up her savings. She was incredibly proud to have those savings set aside to be able to fund not only her own purchases but to be able to take care of her own parents and siblings by sending them a certain amount from time to time and being able to do that for her family made her feel empowered. For her and her parents, this was a very new experience. After a couple of years, her DH decided to quit his job and focus on their own startup for roughly a year. While he had saved some of this money up, I asked her how she felt about having the pressure of the household (her DH, her daughter and herself) placed solely on her and how she was handling it. She then described how DH set aside savings to foot the cost of the household during the time he'd be focused on the startup. If he had not done that, she wouldn't be happy about having that responsibility reside solely on her. She also said she was happy her PILs were well off because she wouldn't have been comfortable sending them money unless they needed it desperately but thankfully that day would never come. I did find that thinking to be a little biased at the time but didn't discuss it further.

    On the other hand, I also had come across possibly oe the most devoted lady that I've ever met. She was a mom of two teenage girls who also went above and beyond to take care of her own aging parents, her DH's aging parents (DH's father was a doctor and on his third marriage) and even DH's aging former-step mom (who had no children of her own nor a DH) with whom the DH and her family were close. That lady worked her behind off working hard along with her DH to provide for their family, but on top of that, take care of 5 gig adults. She did it all alongside her DH...coordinated their medical needs (including care, sometimes nursing homes, health insurance/medicare, medication, doctors, appointments, spending time with them...and mind you, each elderly adult averaged on roughly 10-12 doctors) along with their associated financial needs. AND took care of two teenage daughters. Even when I went to go meet her with a couple of friends of mine, she was such an incredible host who prepared not only pastries, but lemonade and coffee along with a huge smile on her face. I was floored by this lady and can only hope that I am able to do things half as well as her someday.
     
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  6. yellowmango

    yellowmango IL Hall of Fame

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    @ HR....
    If both the partners are working....then I would also advise that one salary(doesn't matter which) be used as savings for the family (husband ,wife and children) for emergencies or investing so that their future is taken care of....while the other salary should be used to help parents(both) and running the household.
     
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  7. yellowmango

    yellowmango IL Hall of Fame

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    In real life ...I do know of some cases where the wives have completely isolated the husband's family ...some who have cut all contact with in laws....Some in my husband's family......
     
  8. SGBV

    SGBV IL Hall of Fame

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    Thanks a lot YM and HR for your detailed response.

    There are couple of active threads either that shows how the wives were misusing their husband's money on gifts and purchase to their FOO in a luxurious way or expecting their own SIL (brother's wife) to be so obedient to them. But their OP was intend to discuss something else, and was going in that direction only. I just picked their unspoken double standards.

    Gender comes to the scene when culture force women to be in dependent position all the time. That is why brothers required to help their sisters during their wedding and afterwards and not otherwise.

    Generally the strongest one would help the weakest one. This is how we are being raised in our culture. Be it financial strength or physical strength.

    In my family, there were no gender bias. We were given equal opportunity to learn, explore the world and business when we were with parents. But it does not make a good sample of the entire nation.

    Men are privileged to study and work on their career goal as their parents have no issues in spending on them. They literally consider it as investments.
    But that is most of the time not the case with women.
    Except in upper class societies, what I read in India is a horrible comparison between men and women. Women are underprivileged and their upbringing is never considered as an investment.

    Again, why I equate a parents' support to investment is... Parents are not required to support their children beyond their capacity. Even, it is not required to extend support to certain gender only.

    Adult children should be able to fend themselves, educate themselves and work on their lives. But here, parents volunteer to help to a certain extend.

    The same parents do not extend the same support on their female children. Why?

    Again, the reason being culture underlying selfishness.

    If I am representing an average Indian woman, I would never bothered to extend financial assistance to my parents for their not-so-burning needs; specially from my husband's hard earned salary.

    Why?

    Because, I know my brother can do this. He owes to my parents, as he received so much assistance (financial) from them compared to me.

    How come my SIL (brother's wife) have concerns over this? Because her husband received so much assistance from his parents and now he is paying back.

    To add fuel to this... I am hearing from many old mothers, that the financial assistance they extend to their one child (mostly male/first one) are borne by the entire family and not just by the parents.
    Perhaps, the little ones compromises their needs, their luxuries and opportunities in the process of making one/probably the older one as a professional.
    There might be unspoken agreement within the family members, that the older one, who received special assistance at the cost of everyone's comforts will take care of the underprivileged ones.

    Now, what if his new wife without having a clear understanding of everything object his spending on others?
    Isn't it fair?

    Again we can have another discussion as to how parents are suppose to treat both genders equally and all the children as same./.... When it comes to real life, we have to deal with the problem in hand, until we find a solution permanently.
     
  9. SGBV

    SGBV IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear @sdiva and @yellowmango

    I share a totally different experience of yours. May be that is the reason we have different view points.

    My parents were living in a nuclear family, and there were not much interference from both sides. Except we celebrate festivals and functions together with cousins, but there were hardly any problems related to finances.

    Everyone had more or less the same background. One would assist the other during their rainy times, but no one was exploited.

    But I had a very different life after marriage. Where we were drained, exploited and what not. At that point I was blaming everyone for this. But now, I realized it was the mistake of my husband, his inability to foresee his own immediate family's needs, and his inability to say a NO when it is needed.

    Just because he is careless, he let others to exploit him. They indeed treated his money as if something goes to the sea, so what if we make use of it.

    I was also to be blamed partially for not being able to have my family's need straight.

    While fully supporting the idea of financially support the FOO when they are in need, I still make a clear point that your support should be recognized, received with thanks and shouldn't be seen as something that is a must to do.

    When other siblings are not doing well, it is very hard to enjoy the luxuries all alone. It is human nature to make them a little comfortable. Because it is not only your body that enjoys comforts but your heart too. But you should be clearly able to make the boundaries.

    Some people extend gifts and money to their FOO just ensure upper hand in the circle. (Read a thread about brother's wife in parents/siblings forum). The family will then get used to receive so much gift from them. With time, it can become as a norm that you spend on us, so we listen to you. So, to have control, they wouldn't mind spending beyond their capacity.

    Perhaps at one point, they are capable of spending a lot for the control... Now that when things become uncontrollable, they still spend to manage damage control... See it is all about control.

    I would rather blame someone who is being exploited instead of blaming others. Because no one is a child here.

    However, when someone wholeheartedly helps the other who are in need is a different story.
     
  10. nb25

    nb25 Gold IL'ite

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    SGBV,

    I get where you are coming from. But the picture is not so gloomy in India. Many girls are better educated than their brothers. Many are equally well - educated. Many are less educated than brothers. So, making a general statement here would not be wise. Besides, some of my colleagues in India took education loan to put themselves through college. I have personally known many well - qualified women whose parents paid for their education.

    I feel expecting something in return for something is selfish. If indeed parents feel this way, they should not shoulder the burden of educating their children. They should ask them to take out loans, and save money for retirement, rather than negatively impacting relationships with expectations of financial assistance throughout their lives.

    I have seen many parents able to afford children's education, and enjoy a comfortable retirement. There also may be some who can't. But then either of them will approach their lives differently. I don't think this can be generalized.
     
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