Ethical Or Otherwise?

Discussion in 'Education & Personal Growth' started by satchitananda, Sep 22, 2018.

  1. satchitananda

    satchitananda IL Hall of Fame

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    I am not sure this is the right forum to post this, but being as it is something I am facing at an educational institute, I chose to write here.

    I have been doing what I feel is right, but am not sure whether it is or how else one can handle this.

    Ok, so here goes. I had a student X in my class a few semesters ago. She comes from a wealthy family and her attitude can be off-putting to many - let's put it this way - she sees herself to be above others, comes from an erstwhile 'royal' family, thinks others need to be taught what is politically correct and what is not (though ironically, she is not very politically correct herself). Much as I have not felt comfortable with these aspects of her behaviour, I have not considered it my place to tell her what to do or what not to. It is her life, her lessons to be learned and she will eventually do so. Besides, I am dealing with adults, not kids. She has all along been very respectful towards me and I have behaved with her just as I would with any student of mine - taking extra trouble (more than many of the teachers would) to help my students with their written work etc.

    She has kept in touch with me even after she has gone on to higher classes and recently she was taught by a colleague of mine and all hell has broken loose. She has communicated with me and told me all that has been happening and I have just listened, passing no judgments on her or on my colleague. I clearly told her that I could not be expected to take sides. I have not mentioned to her anything that has been said by my colleague about her (some really nasty stuff) in the teachers' room. I have also made it clear to X that if she wants any difficulties solved, protocol requires her to ask her current teacher before coming to me. She has not asked for any help so far and I have not offered any.

    My colleague and some younger students in the class are very close to each other and those students keep telling my colleague all stuff about X, who she is in touch with etc. Now my colleague called me outside the teachers' room yesterday and 'warned' me about X and asked me if I was giving her private tuitions and said her students told her X had been looking for me. She told me to be careful about X. I can't say it did not cheese me off and I was left wondering how to handle it. I assured her that I had enough sense not to carry tales from students to teacher's room or vice versa. I wondered whether I should escalate the matter but decided to leave things where they are.

    I don't want to tell X not to talk to me - I have no reason to cut one student off just because another bunch of people don't like her. It seems to be so petty and I don't see why any one member of staff should try to colour other people's opinion of a student!!! Does not speak well for a member of staff with so many years of experience behind her - she is one of the senior most.
     
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  2. Lalithambigai

    Lalithambigai IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Madam, the very fact that this situation is so close to your heart and you are trying to figure out if there is a better way to handle it, shows how responsible a teacher you are :worship2:

    Having read the entire snippet twice to find any tiny possible scope for improvement I can safely say you handled it the best way possible.

    Definitely better than I would have. Easier said than done but in this case I would have made an effort to put the Polish proverb to use and move on:
    Not my monkey, not my circus!
     
  3. satchitananda

    satchitananda IL Hall of Fame

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    Thanks a lot for the words of support Lalitha. I decided to let sleeping dogs lie and watch happens further. Hopefully nothing does. I go, do my work and get back. I don't need other trying to wash their dirty linen in my washing machine.
     
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  4. Lalithambigai

    Lalithambigai IL Hall of Fame

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    Well said Mam. The Elephant keeps walking while the dogs keep barking :thumbup:
     
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  5. Agathinai

    Agathinai Gold IL'ite

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    I think inspite of whatever the personalities of the students maybe there is breach of personal ethical values here by your colleague. Abroad children are still under clear school ethics and the teacher should not be talking about the students and she or he should have prevented this when the friends came and discussed about this girl. She should never have approached you either.

    One thing you can say is that it’s probably better if the teacher talk directly with the concerned pupil or her parents or with the school principal. I will suggest maybe you can refer your school guidelines in this situation. Being neutral is the best way with guidance to the relevant people. In the end the student is a minor and the School authorities are protecting her when her parents aren’t around.

    So your colleague has definitely breached ethics and used her position to tell you and also to gather information from the student’s friends. That’s all I can feel and think now.
     
  6. satchitananda

    satchitananda IL Hall of Fame

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    Agathinai, this is not a school but an institute. The students coming here are all working adults who come here to gather additional skills. I have been told by the student that this teacher gets the other students to keep tabs on X and report to her. I don't want to go deeper into the matter because I don't want to encourage X to talk about the teacher, but I can very well believe what she says, and this was only further proved by the teacher telling me that the students had told her. I don't see why she needs to know whether X talks to teacher A or B or seeks help outside working hours or whether she is friends with any particular teacher on a personal level. Such friendships cannot influence her results in any way because teachers do not correct their own students papers and every paper is corrected by two teachers and in case of lack of concurrence, moderated by a third examiner. So her personal relationships with any member of staff has no bearing on her exams or performance.
     
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  7. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Not taking sides and not offering any help is wise but not enough. If you are have decided not to offer her any help with the matter then the topic of her interactions with your colleague should be off-limits in your conversations with her, the limit being kindly but firmly enforced by you.Teachers talking in the teachers' room about a student and associated problems is OK. A teacher and student talking about the student's problem with another teacher is not OK.

    Their such conversations are not very different than yours with X, your reminders to X about some Lakshman-rekha's notwithstanding.

    You don't have to cut off one student but unwritten "colleague" protocol calls for your firmly discouraging X from talking to you about that teacher. If that teacher is doing something very harmful, then, X or you can and should report it.

    To be the confidant of two warring parties is an unenviable position. Why not distance oneself from it. No matter how judicious one tries to be, it ends unpleasantly for the confidant.
     
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  8. satchitananda

    satchitananda IL Hall of Fame

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    I totally agree with you about X not being encouraged to talk to me about my colleague and without saying it in as many words, I have managed to get her to deflect from the topic. Yes, if she brings it up again, I'll have to tell her openly. I have done nothing to encourage either side. In fact I have nothing to do with it!!! That is why it is bothering me that they are both trying to drag me in ..... for what? It's none of my business! If X is trying to find out what is being said about her in the teachers' room, she is barking up the wrong tree and I have clearly told her that I cannot discuss such stuff with her. Trouble is both X as well as the colleague are not easy persons and I am not surprised that they are having problems with each other.

    As far as my conversations with X are concerned, or rather her conversations with me, they are not solicited, welcomed or encouraged.

    I don't react when the teacher talks about X in the teachers' room. I don't mention her, I don't ask about her. Obviously she has a major issue and is extremely insecure to suddenly come, summon me out of the room to have a private word with me and warn me about the girl. Just wish people would keep their insecurities to themselves.
     
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  9. Agathinai

    Agathinai Gold IL'ite

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    In that case better to tell directly to both about not to discuss such teacher student issues with you. It’s the better way in the long run. They both are adults and you can tell both of them to discuss their issues among themselves.
     
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  10. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    After the first two exchanges on the topic, X needs or needed to be told, "I appreciate your confidence in me, but it would not be right for me to discuss this more with you. X is my colleague. If you have any issues that need immediate help, I can guide you to the proper resource/person. I am sure you understand. Once again, I am honored you considered me worthy of sharing it with." Basically the "It's not you, it's me" message. : )

    That teacher needs to be told: "X and I do meet and talk, but there is nothing inappropriate about it. I know her quite well having had her as my student, and am well aware how to maintain the required boundaries and what talk to discourage."

    You are too nice. : ) "without saying it in as many words" doesn't work. It has my experience and observation that much of the world can be 'laaton ke bhoot' when it comes to matters dear to them. "As many words" and the words repeated as many times is needed. : )

    *laaton ke bhoot: people for whom words are not enough.
     

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