Why The Agnipariksha?

Discussion in 'Education & Personal Growth' started by beautifullife30, Aug 17, 2016.

  1. Laks09

    Laks09 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    6,682
    Likes Received:
    11,157
    Trophy Points:
    440
    Gender:
    Female
    @SunPa - Thanks for the URLs. I hadn't read the stories.

    @Viswamitra - Thank you for the English translation and the URL. In a rush, that's where we can go take a peek.

    @sokanasanah - I like the honesty. I like the fact that "I'm human" is spoken. I also like the fact that in various locations in the epic the love of Sri Rama and Sita are highlighted. I'm not questioning their love or their devotion or their affection for each other. I'm not in a position to question Rama's undying affection for Sita. His grief over losing Sita to Ravana, it's so real.
    What I am put off with is that Chapter 115 verses 15 etc etc through the explanation that Rama gives around chapter 118. It just feels weak.

    The implication - "I had to speak harsh words to my wife because if I didn't my subjects would taunt me or question her virtue" is something that I cannot agree with, given the context. The kind of man Rama had been all along the epic, uttamapurusha and dharmaatma, sets our expectations of him above such silly reasoning. Plus, over and over in various chapters, they are meant to be yin and yan, jeevatma and paramatma, sun and sunlight and yet when the Agnipareeksha happens and Sita enters the pyre alone, it makes it all sound like anti climax. She followed him to wherever his destiny took him and yet she undertook the agnipareeksha alone?

    On the other hand, "I'm human"(and hence implying I may make mistakes) is something that I can understand. That is something that I can agree with. In that case, he is accepting being at fault. Passing on the blame is human, accepting ones mistakes and atoning for it isn't(according to me). Then again, its a mistake. Even he agrees. :)
     
    Viswamitra likes this.
  2. Kamla

    Kamla IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    8,454
    Likes Received:
    5,103
    Trophy Points:
    440
    Gender:
    Female

    Dear @beautifullife30 ,

    First of all, let me congratulate you for this thread you have started has been nominated to FP of the month by @vaidehi71 !

    At the first glance, seeing the 17 pages for me to cover was daunting. Wonderful discussion here and many of our informed members have written with great detail about their thoughts regarding your OP and some have even questioned you vehemently about various points.

    In subjects such as this, there is bound to be a matter of opinion. Everyone will differ and have their own take on the incidents that is narrated in these great epics. Who is right and what belief is wrong cannot be answered at all is my opinion! Everyone's view point is right in some way and it may not be agreeable to another...But to have a healthy discussion is always good as this will only inform us more and give a person like me something to think about and learn.


    While dealing with questions and doubts of others, I did realize and it has also been brought to my attention that much of the text posted by you has been copied from various sources from the wide web! Unfortunately you have for reasons of your own did not mention the sources. This is not welcoming here as it can cause copy right problems and land us in trouble. Hence please do provide the sources or just use the information only as a reference and not copy verbatim. I guess you already know the rules but I had to mention it.

    Such discussions are always welcome as long as a friendly tone and a tolerance for each other's opinions are maintained . Otherwise, all of us have to sigh and mutter.."Hey Ram, save me from this" !!

    L, Kamla
     
  3. GoogleGlass

    GoogleGlass IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    5,711
    Likes Received:
    22,529
    Trophy Points:
    470
    Gender:
    Male
    Well said Kamla.

    If the decorum is not maintained then it would turn like "Godse claiming he was GodSe(nt) to shoot the one uttering Hey Ram".
     
  4. Meenumeow

    Meenumeow New IL'ite

    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Female
    Hi,
    Thanks for sharing this . Well appreciated.
     
  5. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    3,959
    Likes Received:
    6,857
    Trophy Points:
    408
    Gender:
    Male
    @Laks09, re: post 161:
    I waded into this discussion merely to buy some room for the OP to lay out her case. My goal is not to propose some sort of final arbitration decision one way or the other. What I wanted to point out was this: the underlying issues about right and wrong in reference to the episodes in question have not been missed by traditional scholars. We often tend to forget a history of ideas and argue as if we have made some utterly new observation unique to us. This is not the case - what we have here is a rediscovery; there is a long 'vyakyani' tradition, exegetics and apologetics, pondering these matters.
     
    beautifullife30, vaidehi71 and Laks09 like this.
  6. Laks09

    Laks09 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    6,682
    Likes Received:
    11,157
    Trophy Points:
    440
    Gender:
    Female
    @sokanasanah - I just added my thoughts in the mix too. Lets see what the OP has to say.
    Reg, reinventing the wheel, I love to do that. Isn't that the whole point of the thread? Discuss what has already been done and dealt with :)
     
    kaniths and Gauri03 like this.
  7. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    6,211
    Likes Received:
    13,034
    Trophy Points:
    445
    Gender:
    Female
    Precisely! Just because these questions have been asked, doesn't mean we can't raise them again! And constant references to 'traditional scholars' is a bit of an appeal to authority, me thinks! I get it. Better minds than ours have pondered these dilemmas. So be it. We are not trying to prove that this an original or seminal line of questioning. Only trying to have a discussion from a lay person's perspective.
     
  8. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    13,364
    Likes Received:
    24,099
    Trophy Points:
    538
    Gender:
    Male
    Soka,

    Agreed. Traditional scholars have not missed pointing out issues about right and wrong with reference to the epics and no one here is questioning it either. Rehashing them may be unnecessary for those who are rich in knowledge but might be required for those who are trying to learn like me. But when I quoted Agniparkisha and Vastraapharana in the epics (in another thread) as a reference to women being treated badly even in Treta Yuga and Dvapara Yuga to condemn wrong doings to the women particularly widows in response to some other IL claiming that women were treated like Goddesses earlier, OP started this thread with a comment, "Half knowledge is dangerous........ and one should read it with the right frame of mind to gather good lessons out of the epics" implying I have not done it. Sometimes, qualifier at the end, "this is not intended to hurt anyone in particular" is a perfect recipe to bring everyone to this particular thread. Particularly, until two good samaritans notified me about this thread after 10 pages of responses, I didn't even know that what I said in response to another thread is being discussed here.

    None of us questioned OP's knowledge here. The request was to leave the discussions open for various views rather than defending such actions that are already discussed at length by traditional scholars and also not to blame others who come up with different views as illiterates or those who have not read the original version of Valmiki Ramayana. She also quoted things from other blogs without referencing them that caused a little bit of copyright issue.

    I have a lot of respect for your views and even if you arbitrate, I will gladly take your verdict. :)

    Viswa
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
    Lathasv and GoogleGlass like this.
  9. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    3,959
    Likes Received:
    6,857
    Trophy Points:
    408
    Gender:
    Male
    I did not realize this connection, until almost the end of the discussion, due to my superficial skimming of the other threads. Re: half-knowledge, I took it in a generic sense - I have not read the texts in detail (jeez, the mostly ritualistic Yajurveda might be a bit of a drag anyway!), so the observation would apply to me. Absent Faustian bargains, I am compelled to accept my lot with as much good cheer as I can muster. Katrathu kai-mann alavu, kallathathu Google alavu!*:lol:

    * The original quote in Tamil translates as: All my knowledge amounts to but a fistful of sand, while my ignorance is as large as the earth.
     
  10. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    3,959
    Likes Received:
    6,857
    Trophy Points:
    408
    Gender:
    Male
    No, but raising them de novo, without some acknowledgement of the history of ideas is a sign of intellectual immaturity. That's the sort of 'why' that's best left to toddlers who have just discovered cause-and-effect. The more time you spend reinventing, the less time you have for originality. New knowledge rarely appears ex nihilio. Who wants to reinvent calculus when one can stand on Newton's shoulders? (And Leibnitz's). One would rather hold forth on why string theory is all wet noodle and Ed Witten is wasting his life.:lol:
    Think about how you set about identifying a thesis problem to work on and how it was fnally crafted. A day in the library to ensure that it had not been 'solved' already, another few days to flesh out foundations that you may build on.
    'Constant' eh? Watch it lady - don't make me come down there! :smash2::mad:
     

Share This Page