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Marital Rape Can't be a Crime in India - Maneka Gandhi

Discussion in 'Married Life' started by Rihana, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. satchitananda

    satchitananda IL Hall of Fame

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    Fear of 'misuse of the law' to avoid introducing such a law is absurd IMHO. I am sure, even if the law is misused, the extent of misuse would be nowhere near the extent of the crime. So does that mean that to protect a few innocent men who might be harassed wrongly by their villainous wives, one allows more wives to be raped by their villainous husbands? Men as villains seem more acceptable to our society and government than women.

    As for Maneka Gandhi, she was more concerned about the welfare of animals than that of women.
     
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  2. SGBV

    SGBV IL Hall of Fame

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    Don't know how the law is in practice in India beyond what is written on paper. In Sri Lanka (where I live), marital rape is a crime only if H and W are living separately. Thus, any act of sexual without consent - with or without violence is considered rape/marital rape if complained.

    However, I have a strong opinion that marital rape should be criminalized. Activists are still working towards a new change in this law. It is still heard under domestic violence act, which is a shame.

    Rape is cruel, be it general rape or marital rape. It is very different from normal sex between married couple although the wife is not interested in the act.
    Rape involves violence (both physical, emotional).
    Sometimes forced sex (for financial, or other reasons eg- keep the wife starving from meals to get her consent for sex) within marriage amounts to marital rape, although there is no forensic evidence related to the act.

    But in general, it is easy to get forensic evidence even in marital rapes just like other rapes.
    If there is a force, physical violence etc.. the women's body should be able to say it (although if the act happened within 4 walls). The nail marks, bites, and so many other judicial evidence can be taken by the doctors upon the case is reported.

    However, there are very few women come out to lodge complains for marital rapes. Instead of wanting justice for the case, they often want a way out - separation. Thus filing it as sexual torture, abuse etc.. under domestic violence act, and get a way out.
    Stigma and truama associated with the word "Rape" plays a major role here.
    Plus, many women still are confused about the word "Rape" with unwanted sex, uninterested sex with their spouse. So, they are unsure about it.
    And more importantly, as a continuation of our other thread of "big O', the lack of awareness/understanding about the act makes women accept what comes their way. Many of them still think sex is a duty, rather than an act to feel good about.
    Some woman still claim, they allow their H to use them! Being used as a sex toy in a marriage is acceptable socially it seems!
    So, it is more of a social problem than a legal problem.
    Even if you criminalized it, only a few cases will come out.
     
  3. APS45

    APS45 Silver IL'ite

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    There seems to be lot more emotions, perceptions and imaginations than the truth surrounding marital rape, I don’t know how far it is true. Sex is integral part of marital relationship, and it is the need for both husband and wife, where both are have varying degree of sex drive, frequency of need, rigor and fantasies. Add to these the physical and mental state of both at the time of sexual expectation from either of them, there is enough of complications to accuse each other in one or another time. Does it call for intervention by law? Better results may be achieved through pre and post marriage counselling, creating awareness about individual rights and responsibilities towards each other than allowing law in to the bedroom.

    According to IPC definitions of gender specific rape law - Sex against will & Sex without consent are the first two, which are, in my opinion, somewhat overlaps with wife allowing her husband even though she does not want sex. If I am not wrong, when a woman says no, it may also means yes sometime, unfortunately, men are simple creatures and often struggle to rightly decode the meaning of women’s complex emotions. Perhaps the husband may keep trying even with “no’ until probably a physical push back. Moreover, a rigorous man may falsely understood as forceful, again, it depends on individual tolerance limits and state of mind at given point of time.

    Almost every man may be charged of rape/molestation in one or another time according to above definitions, interpretations and complexities of misunderstanding the real meaning of No. It does not matter whether his wife charge him under rape law or not. Neither the women can fully absolve themselves as per above interpretation of law.

    Every individual has the ability to handle all these complexities and pressure, I am sure women are stronger in handling these. If nothing works out, best solution is to walkout of the relationship. One has to keep in mind, not giving reasonable sexual gratification to their respective spouse is also a ground for divorce. So, there is always a line of dispute, which is subjective and varies for individuals.

    Lastly, how one prove or disprove marital rape in the court of law unless otherwise there is physical evidence of assault on private part (to charge under rape law). The victim’s statement alone is no longer acceptable, going by the numerous false cases under existing DV and common rape law.

    To sum it up, the marital rape law may bring more harm than good, and I am almost certain that the end result could be loss-loss for both men and women, it will be most likely used as blackmailing tool by wrong women, which in turn impact all the women in terms of trust level.

    The best approach is to create social awareness and relationship counselling to honour the choice of the spouse as well as to remind the responsibilities. An honest and open dialogue before marriage may be helpful to assess the compatibility, one of the key thing for successful long term relationship.
     
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  4. QueenBee

    QueenBee Senior IL'ite

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    I found above part of your post totally disturbing. No is a no - it's not a maybe, it's not a try harder. There is no confusion. If guys can't understand that then there is something fundamentally wrong.
     
  5. APS45

    APS45 Silver IL'ite

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    Madam, I am aware of dictionary meaning of NO, neither I agree on any form of forced sex. I am underscoring text book of law, which is open for multiple interpretation depending on individual tolerance limit, maturity and the satisfactory level of relationship at given point of time. I dont think the intimate relationship between spouses can be bracketed in simple yes /no replies. The fundamental point is, what is the best course of action to counter forced sex within marriage, is it through law? or or it is through creating awareness about individual rights within marriage. I opt for later, simply because law is useless in building relationship. One can opt for law only when the relationship reached a point of no return, a divorce, till then better to keep the law away bedroom, if not away from home.
     
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  6. APS45

    APS45 Silver IL'ite

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    Madam, I am aware of dictionary meaning of NO, neither I agree on any form of forced sex. I am underscoring text book of law, which is open for multiple interpretation depending on individual tolerance limit, maturity and the satisfactory level of relationship at given point of time. I dont think the intimate relationship between spouses can be bracketed in simple yes /no replies. The fundamental point is, what is the best course of action to counter forced sex within marriage, is it through law? or or it is through creating awareness about individual rights within marriage. I opt for later, simply because law is useless in building relationship. One can opt for law only when the relationship reached a point of no return, a divorce, till then better to keep the law away bedroom, if not away from home.
     
  7. crazywriter

    crazywriter Platinum IL'ite

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    Yes - marital rape should and must be termed a crime.

    Based on my reading of the issue over the last few weeks:
    • Ignorance of the law cannot automatically give immunity to the perpetrator of the crime.
    • Yes, laws are misused all over by both genders (not only in divorce cases) but that should not mean that the unfortunate victims are denied a chance to remedy?
    • The law unfortunately looks at men and women unfairly in this matter. I remember reading a piece by Shobha De based on a news item (the news was that a man applied for divorce from his wife who he said had a huge appetite for sex. She would compel him even when he was sick, tired etc. The judge granted divorce to the man on the grounds that the woman was not being fair to him). De points out of the several examples of women she knows who are forced to give in to their husband's demands for sex even when they are just post-partum, or suffering from cramps, or menstruating, or are generally unwell. The number of posts in this forum also shows that there are many women who give in to sex even if they are in pain. If a woman goes to court, the judge will invariably say 'it is your duty'. These are the situations that need to be avoided.
    • Regarding proof: yes, it is extremely difficult to prove rape within a marriage, as in many cases there are no signs of a struggle; the woman might just give in and swallow the pain. I refer to this article in the news minute that points out the fallacies and the delicate points of this situation - Justice, misuse and proof: Why the legal debate on marital rape is wrongly set up I quote "Marital rape will not happen in isolation, there will be a history of violence and physical abuse, and will fit into the larger picture of domestic violence. We have to look at it from that perspective," and "absence of a medical record would not be of much consequence if the other evidence on record is believable." So that should help a wronged wife seek justice.
    • The fact that the present laws followed in India were established by the British centuries ago, and are dangerously outdated, should also be taken into account. The British laws have been amended with time, but the same laws in India are still in place. This has to change.
    Hoping that I have drawn out some pertinent points.
     
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  8. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    APS45, a pretty balanced couple of posts from you. One may or may not agree completely with your opinion, but you've put some thought into it. That is appreciated. And posted in a mostly female forum too.

    One sentence that stood out was: "the intimate relationship between spouses cannot be bracketed in simple yes/no replies." I was thinking that this is more so the case for Indian marriage. A yes/no makes more sense (IMO) in a western marriage where both the man and woman are likely to initiate sex, both are likely to say no at times, and where sex is a more open topic, not much a taboo, and not a hush-hush thing. In such a scenario, a no-means-no is easier to define.
     
  9. satchitananda

    satchitananda IL Hall of Fame

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    Accepting that this has been the situation until now, while also waking up to the reality that women no longer are willing to continue to be in this kind of situation, it is time that a law is enforced if we have any hope of educating people. Normally it makes more sense to educate and much later introduce laws to enforce compliance. However, in a patriarchal set up, in a set up where many women are forced to swallow their pain and continue in unhappy marriages and men are brought up to consider every whim of theirs to be a birthright to be fulfilled by their wives, it might make more sense to use laws to educate people to concepts of what is acceptable and what is not. Wasn't this the way evils like 'sati' were done away with?
     
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  10. sugarnspice

    sugarnspice Bronze IL'ite

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    This is a very interesting thread, and I am happy to put in my opinions. I agree that violence in marriage or any relationship should be dealt with strictly. Fear of misuse does create an issue. But it is better to have strict laws and take care of aberrations than avoid the issue completely.
    An important point is that both men and women need to be educated in giving and receiving respect to each other in any relationship. Whether parental, marital, fraternal, friendship.
    I think that the minister was not giving the issue the depth required. India is a large country and it is important to ensure the safety and respect of all her people, male or female. Domestic violence is an important issue in every country, and it cannot be swept under the carpet. Proactive laws, and the enforcement of these laws, as well education of police force who in many cases do not have the power to act on some situations.
    Perhaps more understanding and education will help to make the situation better.
     
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