Woman's dressing sense are to be blamed for rape ???

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by anika987, Aug 30, 2013.

  1. Ansuya

    Ansuya Platinum IL'ite

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    Thanks for the kind words, Mahajan. Your location (KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa) got me thinking along slightly different lines. Those of you who find my seemingly tenuous associations and strange mental leaps tedious, stop reading now! The rest of you, bear with me... I promise there's a point, and it may even be a valid one.

    South Africa is my home country. Like India, South Africa has a terrible problem of a rape culture (although women do not face widespread sexual harassment on the streets). Now, it pains me to say this, but I will say it anyway. I am grateful for all my country has given me, and I miss home like crazy, but I choose to live in the US because I do not feel safe there. I especially wish to shield my daughter from harm.

    If anyone were to point out these shortcomings in my homeland, I have to accept it. I will not lay the blame at the door of westernization, skimpy clothing, or girls who have become "too modern". Many emerging democracies (India and South Africa are prime examples of this - SA became "independent" of minority rule in 1994; really, not so long ago) face major problems with a population who, suddenly free from the yoke of some kind of oppression, is not able to handle this liberation in responsible ways. Thus, a segment of society (and in both our countries, this is a rather large segment) is, in a sense, morally lost. The institutions that would have or should have provided stability and support (family, education, government welfare) are missing or transformed.

    In most societies, the population that suffers the most when this happens is young men. In this, I see rapists and criminals as victims too. They act the way they do because they don't know any better. They are unable to make sense of their feelings and emotions. They do not have strong, healthy masculine identities that allow them to channel their energies in productive ways. Often, they are unable to educate themselves sufficiently or make a sustainable living.

    We probably would find it very hard to imagine what life is like for people like this, because I'm guessing most of us here are more privileged than this. I'm writing this post to clarify what is meant when we (*) talk about the role that the ills of society, and the failures of government and family, play in rape/sexual inequality epidemics. Dangerous attitudes (e.g. women should avoid being raped by being hyper-vigilant and modestly dressed) contribute to a cultural mindset that feeds rape epidemics.

    The knee-jerk reaction is to say that the government is not doing enough about rape, and not hanging the rapists quickly enough. Punitive deterrents to crime are ineffective and medieval. Asking women to cover themselves is also medieval. We want to move forward in our progress as a society. Putting more restrictions on people and implementing harsher punishments just takes us back to the dark ages.

    There are many rational voices here talking about how we can all do something to solve this problem, like starting in the home and how we educate our sons. Those are the kinds of solutions that, in the long run, will work better than punitive ones. So, changing minds and hearts is important. This means that talking is important. I am glad that Indusladies exists, so I can express myself here. It would be a real shame if we didn't have this forum, or we listened to those people who say, "Talking about it won't help".

    * I really mean "I" here... as Mark Twain said, only kings, editors, and people with tapeworm can legitimately use the royal "we".
     
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  2. monita

    monita Platinum IL'ite

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    The rape incidents especially the gang rapes have actually increased after the Delhi case and the intense protests. Do they think, if they could, we could too? Somewhere I read that the rapists in one of the cases fantasized about gang rape. It's scary.

    Did anyone notice, that this all coincides with the rising number of vulgar item numbers in the movies and the general acceptance of vulgarity in the society. (One of the members has likened dressing in revealing clothes to elegance, I think there is a difference.)

    Just stray thoughts. I am not blaming the female population for the rape epidemic and I definitely don't think only women dressed in skimpy clothes get raped. It all has to with the men's mentality, yet women have to take responsibility to protect themselves and dressing conservatively when you are surrounded by leering men is one good start.
     
  3. OCdesigirl

    OCdesigirl Gold IL'ite

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    I don't think that the amount of rape cases is going up, I just think that they are giving it more media attention now. People are making money selling newspapers, increased tv ratings etc. If they would stop reporting it and just change the laws to deal with it maybe cases would decrease.
     
  4. ragavss77

    ragavss77 New IL'ite

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    It is the law that needs to be blamed and not the women. What is the status of that delhi rape case!!!! what happened to that ruthless juvenile!!!!! Nobody knows.No news about that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
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  5. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Reporting and coverage have increased, not the actual rape statistics. We just hear more about them than we did in the past.
     
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  6. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Since the idea, that media coverage is exacerbating crimes against women, seems to be quite pervasive, I'm going to try to clarify this one specific point. When people quote statistics without an understanding of confounding factors, it really gets my goat. So here goes —

    Here is a chart comparing the average crime in Kerala to the average for the Indian union.

    CrimeStats.jpg

    If you look at the numbers, Kerala seems to be a den of the most violent, women-hating, psychopaths! Rape, assault, harassment, cruelty all seem to be much higher than the Indian average. So do we conclude that Kerala has 3 times more cases of assault than the rest of India? More than Delhi? More than the Hindi belt? Does it seem intuitively accurate? No! Then why the discrepancy? Are the numbers wrong? No.

    There is a difference between Actual crime vs. Reported crime. Crimes against women are heavily under-reported. There is a direct correlation between how developed a society is and how high crime reporting rates are. The more developed a nation, the easier it is for an ordinary citizen to access the police, and thus, the higher the reported crime rates. Based on this information, it becomes easier to understand why the numbers for Kerala are so counter-intuitive.

    Kerala has ~100% literacy. It is one of our most developed states. A high percentage of Keralite women are employed and self-dependent. Under these circumstances, not only are women more likely to report crimes, the police are more likely to register these reports. While some parts of Kerala may truly have a higher than average crime rate, much of the discrepancy can be explained by higher than average reporting of crime. Unlike large swathes of the country where a victim is likely to be shamed and harassed for even entering a police station, women in Kerala find it easier to report crimes without harassment.

    Numbers can be illuminating, but they always need to be understood in the context of the assumptions underlying the study that generates them. Without context they serve no purpose other than muddying a discussion.
     
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  7. bhuvnidhi

    bhuvnidhi IL Hall of Fame

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    I am sure I will be bashed up for bringing this.

    Long time ago, I think a year back, there was a thread on whether pornography is good or bad.Quiet surprisingly , we saw a lot of women supporting it.When some of us pointed out that it might lead to rape when the men gets "you know what" after watching it (with no "available" women around), our women in forum defended strongly that it will not lead to rape.It is a shock to see now (fast forward now) that some women and men here claim that clothing leads to rape.
     
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  8. arch1209

    arch1209 Platinum IL'ite

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    Anusuya - you taught me an in important lesson today of using "I" - unconsciously I tend to use more of we - while making statements. But I am going to try and use more of "I" - makes sense to me.
     
  9. Ansuya

    Ansuya Platinum IL'ite

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    Arch, my comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek: an attempt to curtail my own delusions of grandeur, and a reminder to myself to get off my soapbox! You, on the other hand, are a journalist. This means you have every right to speak for and of the people, in my opinion. And when I consider how erudite, sensitive, and morally responsible your thinking and writing is, I feel you can go ahead and use "we" as much as you want ;)

    I'm perplexed by charges that there's too much media coverage of the violent gang rapes in Delhi, Mumbai, and elsewhere. Yes, journalists should respect the privacy and feelings of victims, but beyond that, the media has a responsibility to highlight pressing social issues, and keep the debate going.

    What makes us not want to hear or see the issue of rape brought up again and again? Are we ashamed to confront this issue because sex is still such a taboo topic for us? The best weapon we can give our children against crimes of this nature is enlightenment. We protect ourselves with knowledge, not ignorance.

    It also makes sense that if entertainment media gives the wrong impression about sex, equality, and gender roles (Bollywood item numbers, I'm looking at you), then we should be using the coverage provided by news media to help correct this unbalanced view. Like government, media cannot be separated from its people. We get the media we deserve. It's up to us to elevate the standards of discourse if that is what we want.
     
  10. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Looks like OP's wording of his/her starter post has stirred up passions. And seems like it was calculted to.

    If the topic was what can women do to minimize the chances of getting raped, and one suggestion was to avoid dressing in certain ways in certain areas and at certain times, most would agree. It would be like the advisories given out by government related to travel to foreign countries. It would be like "trust in god, but lock your car."

    Mahajan, a very interesting post. :) I think I got the gist of it and agree.

    No magazine will suggest a man to wear a transparent lungi, but, many will advise men how to get toned abs, a six pack, a muscled chest. Nudity in men does not make women avert their eyes; just that the nudity needs to be a little northwards of the lungi. :)
     
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