Chatter And Banter - Politics In North America

Discussion in 'News & Politics' started by Laks09, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    A man commits a murder. With parole, gets out of prison way too early than the public considers fair. He has in the eyes of many not paid his dues. Should this man be denied some benefits as a free man or the right to speak up against crimes and against laws with loopholes? I say no, he has as much right to speak on those topics as others.

    The old uncle who was in illegal status for 17-20 years, was granted amnesty or whatever which includes an implicit pardon for his felony/crime. If he benefited from the amnesty but now says illegal immigrants should not benefit similarly, I think that expression of opinion is similar to a "by birth" U.S. citizen expressing it.

    If a bunch of people benefited from rules that allowed "bodyshopper" companies to hog H1 visa's by the hundreds each year, and those people (now with GC or UCS) say that the H1 rules should be streamlined so that bodyshopper companies do not abuse the intent of H1, I think it is fair enough.

    A man (and his family) take dowry from the woman's side. The man never gives it back to the woman's family, but turns into a big anti-dowry practice advocate. Years later he tells his daughter that he is not giving dowry for her marriage even though they can afford it and says the dowry system is evil. Fair enough IMO, though he has not paid back the dowry he took and benefited from.
     
  2. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Who are we to decide that he can speak up only if he forgoes the benefits if he was granted amnesty without such conditions?
    When the public starts to decide what is a fair enough punishment, things can go downhill. The judge in that case, Aaron Persky, was following guidelines when he used his discretion. He paid the price by being recalled. Those guidelines have since been evaluated and modified. Guess what, the public is not happy enough with his recall -- he got hired as a coach for a high school's junior varsity girls tennis team. After public outrage, he was let go within a day of being hired.

    I would hesitate to call Brock Turner a criminal after he was tried and had his day in court and has paid any dues decided by the court. I would fault the court or the guidelines in place at the time. A hypocrite yes. Because a rapist without significant demonstration of personal reform speaking up against rape is different from a former illegal speaking up against lax immigration rules.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  3. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    People sometimes vote based on one issue that bothers them the most or rankles them the most.

    The sanctuary city stance of the Dems and how far they can go to prevent the federal officials from implementing federal rules is something I cannot even begin to comprehend. The hue and cry over ICE raiding factories or other places where illegal immigrants are likely to be found.. the number of deportations/removals in the early Obama years far outnumber the number in Trump's presidency so far. Immigration is a fairly important issue for me. If the Trump administration had done something to help the EB2/EB3 families waiting for 10-20 years, and if Pence were not VP, my vote would not be so decidedly blue.
     
  4. Laks09

    Laks09 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    How about the GOPs brow beating sanctuary cities into submitting to their demands by holding out on funding?

    I think living in a blue state, you see things differently. When you have to “prove” your citizenship for a mundane activity like a traffic stop, you may see the difference in enforcement of rules. We are not only anxious of tickets our anxiety is double because of the status question. I keep getting asked my citizenship status in places I never was asked previously thanks to Red laws.
    A simple task as going to cast a vote is such a pain. My name happened to not be on the registered voters list and I was asked multiple times if I was “sure” I was a citizen(had only license with me). Such things probably don’t occur in blue states - or maybe they do and you are ok with it.

    Both extremes are not good. What do we do, tattoo our status on our foreheads for them to see. To top it off, I have a kid who doesn’t even know his personal details. My hispanic helper sometimes drives him around. Who know what the cop stopping her one of these days will ask him? I have his passport copy in his backpack and I sometimes tell her that I’ll go pick him up. I’d rather deal with the drive than the anxiety.
    And it’s not a one off thing around here. It’s a real problem. Is it not the case in CA?
     
  5. 1Sandhya

    1Sandhya Platinum IL'ite

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    But why? why so outraged? This is not India. In India center is all powerful and states have very little power. Here it is opposite. Exactly the opposite. Federal has very little power. States have all the power. They collect the tax money and so they make the rules. They give little bhiksha to federal govt which works on that money. This is how the constitution here was designed. On purpose. Three centuries ago.

    If you don’t know read up on what is the actual law. And how they were set up here. Then you will see your outrage is completely misplaced. ICE is breaking the law. When Feds direct these raids they are breaking the law. It is federal overreach - the feds are reaching out of their jurisdiction and into state jurisdiction. And you are complaining? You should be terrified at their brazenness and proud your blue state is standing up to the bullies.

    If you have or had a kid go through high school just read their AP Gov text book. All your doubts will be cleared.
     
  6. 1Sandhya

    1Sandhya Platinum IL'ite

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    Wow Laks! That’s really extreme! I can’t even imagine what that must be like! Can you get him a bracelet like one of those medical thingies with some details and your number to call? I can understand your anxiety, some of these cops can be so G-D officious.
     
  7. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    The mayor of a city tips of its illegal immigrants about possible upcoming ICE raid: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...grants-about-ice-raid-and-isnt-sorry-she-did/ She is careful to consult her legal counsel and skirts the law. Because she got information about the upcoming raids from unofficial sources rather than formal govt. channels, she cannot be found guilty of obstruction of justice or violating any law.

    If the feds are overreaching, the local govt has legal recourse that does not involve endangering the lives of ICE officials who are simply doing what their higher-up's tell them is their job.

    I doubt AP Govt textbook will have enough material, clarity and conclusive arguments for things that have gained prominence in the last 3-4 years. And good teachers hardly use textbooks, teaching and learning happens more through debate and discussion of current events.

    Be proud of the blue state?-- Yeah, maybe when illegal immigrants do not get the right to do something as precious as vote in an election. Sorry but my admittedly limited understanding and perhaps narrow vision does not let me view illegal immigrant voting as OK by any measure. Give them all the facilities they need and deserve, but reserve somethings like the right-to-vote for people who have a legal status. Wrote about this disillusionment once: Dear America, If My Vote Is Precious
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  8. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Answered above. If a mayor can "protect" illegal immigrants by giving them warning of possible raids, and if local police does not cooperate in giving ICE a heads-up when criminal illegal immigrants are getting out of prison....

    Isn't it fair that illegal immigrants who have committed certain crimes should be deported? Shouldn't the amnesty etc. be reserved for those who are illegal but law abiding? I would hope my local govt will cooperate with feds in sharing data about illegal immigrants who have committed crimes.

    Anyway.. done with this. Nothing can convince me about a local govt protecting illegals with such a vengeance. Voter ballot has warnings in multiple languages warning illegal immigrants that they have the right to vote on certain things like school board elections, but the voter data _might_ be shared with officials that could be harmful to their illegal status. Wah bhai waah... illegals gets the right to vote and also get a warning about the involved risks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  9. shravs3

    shravs3 IL Hall of Fame

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    What’s the percentage of Americans in IT? How many Americans are interested in CS degree? How many American women are in IT?
    Most (not all)of the H4/L2 EAD have CS degrees.

    All these years the so called desi companies have definitely abused H1b system.

    Once upon a time there were some people who got H1B visas out of luck but there skills were not extraordinary.

    On the other hand, I know many people including my family members inspite of doing Masters in US couldn’t get H1B due to the lottery and had to return back to India.

    Why? Major chunk of H1bs were dedicated to offshore team and companies working from India.

    Inspite of investing so much in education
    they had to go back which is not at all fair.

    Currently, Except for the employees from big 4 companies’ the denial rate for other companies (service based) are very vey high.

    Ofcourse, USC should be given first preference any day, but if there are no citizens to fill the jobs, F1 and the deserved must get the jobs or visas.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  10. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Posting on twitter to mock a 16 year old is not presidential. That being said:

    Staring down at world leaders, scolding them with a "How dare you?", sailing on a "zero-carbon" yacht for two weeks, planning to miss school for the next 9 months as she travels the world to raise awareness, crew flying down to sail the yacht back LOL, she has a handler who manages her publicity/speeches/etc. A child who does not have the mental, financial, or legal means to really do something about the issue berating leaders of selected countries... If she wants to take part in matters usually limited to adults, she should be prepared to receive reactions like that. Trump does not discriminate when mocking/trolling. : )

    My first impression on watching that speech by her was, "wow I wont' tolerate that how-dare-you from my teenager. why should world leaders take it quietly?"

    Even allowing for the fact that to make a point, to raise awareness, and to gather the required attention certain unusual methods need to be employed, this whole yacht, scolding speech naatak is silly.

    She has access to an education. Should be pursuing that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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