How Common Is Lying. Please Advise.

samsWait · Jan 21, 2018

redorange said: ↑

Got married 9 months ago. Wife did not disclose about her previous relationship to me. Came to know from her emails/whatsapp about it. I did not feel bad that she had a previous relationship because its fine and there is nothing wrong with it. I felt bad because she particularly told me that she never had a boyfriend and that she cannot understand how people date one person before marriage and marry another.

I confronted her about this. My intention was to make her come clean so we could move on. But she did not come clean. She was like, "I just liked that guy that's all. He did not reciprocate. If this is such a big deal to you you should have asked me before marriage itself."

When I pointed to her chats, she went through it step by step and started telling me stories to explain it off. This drives me nuts. Like, she says those are just words and it meant nothing.

Again, I told her that I understood what she was doing. That it is important that henceforth, going on forward she can't lie. Even if she lies, she should come clean if she is confronted about it. She is like, I never lied. I have no reason to lie. I will never lie.

After a few months, its been a standard operating procedure. Anything I need further clarification on, that my gut tells me (for simple things) she lies. When I ask, she tells stories to explain it. I reached a point where I stopped caring anymore. I will just take whatever she tells me at face value. I have no more trust in her.

I mean I am not going to beat her up or shout or scream at her if she is honest with me.

I did not socialize much but is telling lies common? Is this normal behavior. Is it part of being a socialized person to be fake and put up a front and pretend everything else is going on well.

Unfortunately, my wife says she is crazy in love with me and she can't live without me. I just need a decent person who is not fake and who lives in reality not a make believe fantasy to make themselves feel better.

Do you know people like my wife. Or is this part of Indian culture to lie and cover up to save face?

I told my parents and siblings about this and they are like some people keep lying. Just ignore it. Everyone dates before marriage like your spouse did. You need to get over it. Others are like create a safe space so she will feel comfortable telling the truth. So, it is because of me that she is telling lies?

Can a marriage last without trust? Maybe there are people who can sweep things under the rug, tell lies to each other and put up a happy couple front for society and live happily. But I can't live a fake life like that.

So, Indus Ladies, whats your take on this? If you/your spouse keeps lying about things from small things to big, would you be able to ignore it and live a happy life?
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Lying about past relationships is quite common in arranged marriage scenario since many boys are not very receptive to wives old relationships. It maybe the same with girls too. Not many will like to know the details of husbands past relationships. BUT that does not mean your wife should lie to you even after getting caught. She should not lie for small things too. Looks like she is a habitual liar. Make it clear to her that you need absolute honesty from now on otherwise you are not interested in proceeding with the relationship. If you see some improvements you can go ahead and go to a counselor to get your marriage fixed. Just give it some time.

Sandycandy · Jan 22, 2018

The biggest red flag here are that your wife is in touch with her ex .
I would not assume that she has an STD just because she was in a relationship with another individual. But get tested anyway. What do you plan to do if you test negative for STD ? ( besides getting an ointment for the skin allergy).

Naari · Jan 22, 2018

redorange said: ↑

Do you know people like my wife. Or is this part of Indian culture to lie and cover up to save face?
Click to expand...

I agree with ym’s & geeta Kashyap’s responses above. Her past is past, but infidelity is not acceptable once she married you. You are right & not overreacting for sure, if she is still meeting him.

I am curious, what’s your nationality or say broader continent (if it’s not too much to reveal)? As you talk about ‘Indian culture’ & cheating being common with them.

redorange · Jan 22, 2018

Thank you all for having a balanced view on this. The kindness and empathy is deeply appreciated. Esp. Yellow Mango. I would have left if you did not intervene.

Some additional clarifications:

I only involved my parents, siblings because I decided (90%) to walk away. I just couldn't handle the constant lies. It is driving me crazy. I reached the end of my rope. I actually did this a week ago.

The gas-lighting is a form of abuse that only those who really undergo it will understand the pain.

If my wife only lied about the past. I will understand this. If she won't come clean even after being confronted, that's also understandable (if it is related to the past). But she lies for everyday things.

Regarding the STD, I got tested for it in the early days and it did turn out positive for a certain harmless variety of it. It was a psychological blow to me nevertheless. The current doctor checkup is related to it. I am going to need to get a Biopsy done as well to be sure. Keeping fingers crossed on this one.

Regarding her staying in touch with her ex, I am pretty sure she did not have any malicious intent. He dumped her and she wanted his approval. She wanted to be friends with him still. She considered him as her best friend. She wanted him to know I guess, that she is doing pretty well in life.

I went to individual counseling. Then to couples counseling. The counsellor told me beforehand that my wife might not want to come back for a second session and that's exactly what happened. In that session she started crying and kept denying to probing questions.

She became very angry and told me to go to individual counseling if I wanted and that she will never comeback.

She truly loved me and was crazy about me at the time she married me. She is deeply in love with me still.

And the lies she tells there is no malicious intent behind it. She never wanted to hurt me in any way or form. But, I think she lies mostly to protect her ego or as a habit or to manipulate and get her way. And the sad part is that she wants to be perfect in her own mind. She cannot handle being wrong even for small things. So, it gets twisted and turned and dumped on to other people subconsciously. She genuinely believes the fantasy.

My current situation is not as cut and dry as people think. Its not the usual typical story of a girl with past and husband hung up about virginity. The reality is pretty complex.

I am just trying to see if the lying is a cultural thing or something she picked up to survive.

If the lies are just about the past, then I can live happily with her without issues.

But if it is compulsive lying then I am not sure I am mentally equipped to handle it. I have to change my world view entirely.

If the lying is a cultural thing, then I will try to get a better understanding of it. Honestly, I don't get how people in relationships with compulsive liars live their lives happily. It is slowly killing me inside bit by bit. I no longer have the same drive, energy and zest for life I once had. I have deep compassion towards my wife. I want her to be very happy even if it means she has to be with someone else but she keeps telling me she is very very happy with me and she can't imagine life with anyone else.

As it goes without saying, please no Ad hominem attacks.

Sandycandy · Jan 22, 2018

I don’t want to taint our entire culture but yes traditional Indian men do view women that have been in intimate relationships as being immoral . So that might cause a few women to lie.
You seem to have overlooked a big problem here, your wife wanting to be friends or prove something to her ex. More than her lying problem this seems to be a bigger issue. If she is madly in love with you why the need to prove anything to the ex ? That should be a closed chapter if she truly loves and respects you. This must be tackled first before the lying problem .
I assume your wife has to continue with her lies because you do not trust her at all and everything she says is being overanalyzed . A tiring excercise for both of you I am sure. Unless you learn to trust her it’s going be miserable for the two of you. . What is the guarantee that you will trust your second wife if you decide to pull the plug on this marriage ? This is something you have to work on for yourself and your peace of mind.
Best wishes !

redorange said: ↑

Thank you all for having a balanced view on this. The kindness and empathy is deeply appreciated. Esp. Yellow Mango. I would have left if you did not intervene.

Some additional clarifications:

I only involved my parents, siblings because I decided (90%) to walk away. I just couldn't handle the constant lies. It is driving me crazy. I reached the end of my rope. I actually did this a week ago.

The gas-lighting is a form of abuse that only those who really undergo it will understand the pain.

If my wife only lied about the past. I will understand this. If she won't come clean even after being confronted, that's also understandable (if it is related to the past). But she lies for everyday things.

Regarding the STD, I got tested for it in the early days and it did turn out positive for a certain harmless variety of it. It was a psychological blow to me nevertheless. The current doctor checkup is related to it. I am going to need to get a Biopsy done as well to be sure. Keeping fingers crossed on this one.

Regarding her staying in touch with her ex, I am pretty sure she did not have any malicious intent. He dumped her and she wanted his approval. She wanted to be friends with him still. She considered him as her best friend. She wanted him to know I guess, that she is doing pretty well in life.

I went to individual counseling. Then to couples counseling. The counsellor told me beforehand that my wife might not want to come back for a second session and that's exactly what happened. In that session she started crying and kept denying to probing questions.

She became very angry and told me to go to individual counseling if I wanted and that she will never comeback.

She truly loved me and was crazy about me at the time she married me. She is deeply in love with me still.

And the lies she tells there is no malicious intent behind it. She never wanted to hurt me in any way or form. But, I think she lies mostly to protect her ego or as a habit or to manipulate and get her way. And the sad part is that she wants to be perfect in her own mind. She cannot handle being wrong even for small things. So, it gets twisted and turned and dumped on to other people subconsciously. She genuinely believes the fantasy.

My current situation is not as cut and dry as people think. Its not the usual typical story of a girl with past and husband hung up about virginity. The reality is pretty complex.

I am just trying to see if the lying is a cultural thing or something she picked up to survive.

If the lies are just about the past, then I can live happily with her without issues.

But if it is compulsive lying then I am not sure I am mentally equipped to handle it. I have to change my world view entirely.

If the lying is a cultural thing, then I will try to get a better understanding of it. Honestly, I don't get how people in relationships with compulsive liars live their lives happily. It is slowly killing me inside bit by bit. I no longer have the same drive, energy and zest for life I once had. I have deep compassion towards my wife. I want her to be very happy even if it means she has to be with someone else but she keeps telling me she is very very happy with me and she can't imagine life with anyone else.

As it goes without saying, please no Ad hominem attacks.
Click to expand...

MonikaSG · Jan 22, 2018

I feel that she internally has so much of guilt of giving up too much in relationship and married to someone else. She want her image to remain unaffected. But after everything came to you she is feeling insecure about her image and just trying abruptly to secure that by lying. She is not lying intentionally but with the feeling of insecurity that's very tough to come out. If you really want to continue with her then you have to win her trust. Every time when she lie just tell her politely that dear there is no need for that. I want to live a truthful life with you and don't lose my trust by lying repetitively. She is in a very weak mental position where she needs a lot of love and trust. It can make your life hell if not handled carefully. Leaving her will break her completely and you will also not able to live peacefully then too. Life needs struggle and here is your part of it. Indian girls are born with the "izzat" over burdened to her all the time and if she loses this its not easy for her to come out and face the world confidently.

zeppelingirl · Jan 22, 2018

redorange said: ↑

Thank you all for having a balanced view on this. The kindness and empathy is deeply appreciated. Esp. Yellow Mango. I would have left if you did not intervene.

Some additional clarifications:

I only involved my parents, siblings because I decided (90%) to walk away. I just couldn't handle the constant lies. It is driving me crazy. I reached the end of my rope. I actually did this a week ago.

The gas-lighting is a form of abuse that only those who really undergo it will understand the pain.

If my wife only lied about the past. I will understand this. If she won't come clean even after being confronted, that's also understandable (if it is related to the past). But she lies for everyday things.

Regarding the STD, I got tested for it in the early days and it did turn out positive for a certain harmless variety of it. It was a psychological blow to me nevertheless. The current doctor checkup is related to it. I am going to need to get a Biopsy done as well to be sure. Keeping fingers crossed on this one.

Regarding her staying in touch with her ex, I am pretty sure she did not have any malicious intent. He dumped her and she wanted his approval. She wanted to be friends with him still. She considered him as her best friend. She wanted him to know I guess, that she is doing pretty well in life.

I went to individual counseling. Then to couples counseling. The counsellor told me beforehand that my wife might not want to come back for a second session and that's exactly what happened. In that session she started crying and kept denying to probing questions.

She became very angry and told me to go to individual counseling if I wanted and that she will never comeback.

She truly loved me and was crazy about me at the time she married me. She is deeply in love with me still.

And the lies she tells there is no malicious intent behind it. She never wanted to hurt me in any way or form. But, I think she lies mostly to protect her ego or as a habit or to manipulate and get her way. And the sad part is that she wants to be perfect in her own mind. She cannot handle being wrong even for small things. So, it gets twisted and turned and dumped on to other people subconsciously. She genuinely believes the fantasy.

My current situation is not as cut and dry as people think. Its not the usual typical story of a girl with past and husband hung up about virginity. The reality is pretty complex.

I am just trying to see if the lying is a cultural thing or something she picked up to survive.

If the lies are just about the past, then I can live happily with her without issues.

But if it is compulsive lying then I am not sure I am mentally equipped to handle it. I have to change my world view entirely.

If the lying is a cultural thing, then I will try to get a better understanding of it. Honestly, I don't get how people in relationships with compulsive liars live their lives happily. It is slowly killing me inside bit by bit. I no longer have the same drive, energy and zest for life I once had. I have deep compassion towards my wife. I want her to be very happy even if it means she has to be with someone else but she keeps telling me she is very very happy with me and she can't imagine life with anyone else.

As it goes without saying, please no Ad hominem attacks.
Click to expand...

Lying is not a cultural thing. that also in married life it’s highly not acceptable behaviour.

I’m living in such a same kinda relationship. I can understand what you go through there. I love my DH, to escape from blames, he lies without a second thought even for small things. It is not easy to handle a person who lies for even small things to show them perfect. These people never come for counselling, instead they will tell it’s us who needs a counselling. Only if both the people try to work on with their marriage, it will be a success. You alone can’t fight from one side.

I don’t thing this lying habits will ever change. She has grown up like that. She should have grown up lying to her parents and friends since young age and it has become an acceptable behaviour for her.

I’m sorry that she gave you STD.

Just make to clear and strict to her that lying is not acceptable human behaviour and you can’t live by her lies.

Priya16 · Jan 22, 2018

I have been married for 15 years and I don't lie to anyone other than my husband.Because he had an attitude of I said so but you still doing it kind of person and very dominant.....
I will do stuff if I wanted to do no matter what husband said or dad said or sister said.
but my husband had a habit of I said so and you don't do it... it's like treating 7 years old.

And he always seems to think I lie or hide things.Why would I lie or hide stuff if he has an open mind or at least able to understand another person personality?
The inability to understand your spouse and the person in the dominant position makes another person as lier or hider.

If your wife is truly a good person and your inability to understand her to make you lose your life.

Obama described his two daughters as

one daughter wanted parents to read her stories and get feedback....other daughter don't even wanted to talk about her work..

So each person is different,some people like to discuss and some people don't want to talk.

I am kind of person don't want to talk and another person should understand and respect that.If you can't respect that then marriage will be a choas....

pinky2cute · Jan 22, 2018

Okay Mr.RedOrange.... I heard you...I read you.. I feel you. You know why? Because my situation was...(or I should say it still is) similar to yours.
Just the difference is that in my case, my husband is a compulsive liar and no, he never had any past relationship.

Ours was an arrianged marriage. After marriage I was naive and believed his every word. Though he loves me deeply madly and I'm 200% sure he never had any past relationship nor he can ever think of anyone other than me, I slowly learnt his day habit of lies.
It's not a cultural thing. Blame it on family atmosphere. In my case, my husband's father is a manipulative man(which I got to know after marriage). He can lie easily to anyone including his own family and when get caught, he would turn aggressive instead of accepting the fault and lies.
The same nature is rubbed onto my husband. Though my husband is luckily not manipulative like his father, yet he has habit to lie to me about even small day to day stuff even if its silly.
The motive behind lies is not to cause harm or betray or manipulate...but it's just to escape from the blame or to be pointed at being wrong. Basically to save the ego.
I even made him promise on his parents to not lie to me but he lied even after swearing on his own parents. Now who does that?
I had struggled a lot in these 2yrs to deal with him. I tried to make him agree for counseling but he didnt agree. I even wanted to leave him at one point and break my marriage but he begged me not to leave. He said he loves me deeply. And yes truely he does love me and so do I.
Hence, I decided to be the counseller myself to give a chance to my marriage and my husband.
If you really wish to save the marriage and be peaceful... Here are the things i did which helped me. Might help you too.

1. Learn and try to read your wife's psychology. That will help you understand her nature and why she is lieing. Learn about her family atmosphere where she was broughtup.

2. Shower her with love, gifts, take her out and spend intimate.time together. The more she feels secured and happy with you, the more she will be open and transparent. Do it even if you dont like. It will surely help.

3. Daily send her some marriage quotes about trust, honesty. When she reads it daily, it will fill her with guilt of lieing and she will try herself to not lie to you.

4. Keep telling her how much you love her and want her to be happy and how you wish to plan a life with her after retirent when only you both will be there for each other till death.(it may get her thinking that you and she are inseparable and she should not hurt you by being dishonest).

5. Daily ask how her day was and also keep mentioning her how much you value her feelings and emotions and that you want to read her naked soul.

Repeat steps 1-5 daily ...be patient..it took me 2yrs... Even now my.husband is not totally honest...bt I know he doesn't lie to me anymore. Just few things about his parents n finances he lies or hides from me which I'm still trying to change him.

Goodluck.

Lastly, I want to tell that its easy to end anything but difficult to build it. Try your best to build a good relationship.

redorange said: ↑

Thank you all for having a balanced view on this. The kindness and empathy is deeply appreciated. Esp. Yellow Mango. I would have left if you did not intervene.

Some additional clarifications:

I only involved my parents, siblings because I decided (90%) to walk away. I just couldn't handle the constant lies. It is driving me crazy. I reached the end of my rope. I actually did this a week ago.

The gas-lighting is a form of abuse that only those who really undergo it will understand the pain.

If my wife only lied about the past. I will understand this. If she won't come clean even after being confronted, that's also understandable (if it is related to the past). But she lies for everyday things.

Regarding the STD, I got tested for it in the early days and it did turn out positive for a certain harmless variety of it. It was a psychological blow to me nevertheless. The current doctor checkup is related to it. I am going to need to get a Biopsy done as well to be sure. Keeping fingers crossed on this one.

Regarding her staying in touch with her ex, I am pretty sure she did not have any malicious intent. He dumped her and she wanted his approval. She wanted to be friends with him still. She considered him as her best friend. She wanted him to know I guess, that she is doing pretty well in life.

I went to individual counseling. Then to couples counseling. The counsellor told me beforehand that my wife might not want to come back for a second session and that's exactly what happened. In that session she started crying and kept denying to probing questions.

She became very angry and told me to go to individual counseling if I wanted and that she will never comeback.

She truly loved me and was crazy about me at the time she married me. She is deeply in love with me still.

And the lies she tells there is no malicious intent behind it. She never wanted to hurt me in any way or form. But, I think she lies mostly to protect her ego or as a habit or to manipulate and get her way. And the sad part is that she wants to be perfect in her own mind. She cannot handle being wrong even for small things. So, it gets twisted and turned and dumped on to other people subconsciously. She genuinely believes the fantasy.

My current situation is not as cut and dry as people think. Its not the usual typical story of a girl with past and husband hung up about virginity. The reality is pretty complex.

I am just trying to see if the lying is a cultural thing or something she picked up to survive.

If the lies are just about the past, then I can live happily with her without issues.

But if it is compulsive lying then I am not sure I am mentally equipped to handle it. I have to change my world view entirely.

If the lying is a cultural thing, then I will try to get a better understanding of it. Honestly, I don't get how people in relationships with compulsive liars live their lives happily. It is slowly killing me inside bit by bit. I no longer have the same drive, energy and zest for life I once had. I have deep compassion towards my wife. I want her to be very happy even if it means she has to be with someone else but she keeps telling me she is very very happy with me and she can't imagine life with anyone else.

As it goes without saying, please no Ad hominem attacks.
Click to expand...

Sandycandy · Jan 22, 2018

Pinky, best reply ! Ever !

I hope OP can implement it !!

pinky2cute said: ↑

Okay Mr.RedOrange.... I heard you...I read you.. I feel you. You know why? Because my situation was...(or I should say it still is) similar to yours.
Just the difference is that in my case, my husband is a compulsive liar and no, he never had any past relationship.

Ours was an arrianged marriage. After marriage I was naive and believed his every word. Though he loves me deeply madly and I'm 200% sure he never had any past relationship nor he can ever think of anyone other than me, I slowly learnt his day habit of lies.
It's not a cultural thing. Blame it on family atmosphere. In my case, my husband's father is a manipulative man(which I got to know after marriage). He can lie easily to anyone including his own family and when get caught, he would turn aggressive instead of accepting the fault and lies.
The same nature is rubbed onto my husband. Though my husband is luckily not manipulative like his father, yet he has habit to lie to me about even small day to day stuff even if its silly.
The motive behind lies is not to cause harm or betray or manipulate...but it's just to escape from the blame or to be pointed at being wrong. Basically to save the ego.
I even made him promise on his parents to not lie to me but he lied even after swearing on his own parents. Now who does that?
I had struggled a lot in these 2yrs to deal with him. I tried to make him agree for counseling but he didnt agree. I even wanted to leave him at one point and break my marriage but he begged me not to leave. He said he loves me deeply. And yes truely he does love me and so do I.
Hence, I decided to be the counseller myself to give a chance to my marriage and my husband.
If you really wish to save the marriage and be peaceful... Here are the things i did which helped me. Might help you too.

1. Learn and try to read your wife's psychology. That will help you understand her nature and why she is lieing. Learn about her family atmosphere where she was broughtup.

2. Shower her with love, gifts, take her out and spend intimate.time together. The more she feels secured and happy with you, the more she will be open and transparent. Do it even if you dont like. It will surely help.

3. Daily send her some marriage quotes about trust, honesty. When she reads it daily, it will fill her with guilt of lieing and she will try herself to not lie to you.

4. Keep telling her how much you love her and want her to be happy and how you wish to plan a life with her after retirent when only you both will be there for each other till death.(it may get her thinking that you and she are inseparable and she should not hurt you by being dishonest).

5. Daily ask how her day was and also keep mentioning her how much you value her feelings and emotions and that you want to read her naked soul.

Repeat steps 1-5 daily ...be patient..it took me 2yrs... Even now my.husband is not totally honest...bt I know he doesn't lie to me anymore. Just few things about his parents n finances he lies or hides from me which I'm still trying to change him.

Goodluck.

Lastly, I want to tell that its easy to end anything but difficult to build it. Try your best to build a good relationship.
Click to expand...